To be sick of this "all old people vote Tory" narrative

[WatchoRulo]

There really is no nuance to any debate when people make ill informed claims of this type.

Anecdotally from my friends and family - the only Tory voters are the younger people.

Factually - it's very obviously the case that not everyone over, say, 60 suddenly starts voting Tory.

Also - like the "old people without degrees all voted for Brexit", these claims are based on a statistical extrapolation, often from a very small sample size and are also based entirely on what people who were asked told the researchers. This "data" is from the very same polling organisations that failed to predict the outcome of the referendum, yet somehow some people have accepted their guesses as immutable truths and "facts".

We have a crap FPTP electoral system which means most people don't get what they vote for.

It's a secret ballot - the only way to know for certain the detailed demographics of who votes for what would be to check who actually voted for whom.

I am really fed up of the narrative that as a boomer (aged 60, still working and paying tax and NI by the way) I have deliberately shat on younger people all my life (why would I - I have a teenage DD).

I have personally never voted Tory and consider it vanishingly unlikely I ever would, and I recognise that I've had some lucky breaks from when I was born, but I haven't deliberately stolen from young people.

All my Labour voting colleagues/friends/relatives have got more radical as they’ve got older.

I’ve voted Labour all my life. My Millenial DS calls me a radical, even though he also votes Labour.

I think this Tory voting thing is an English problem. Scotland, NI and Wales don’t seem to vote Tory. Neither on the whole do the North ( except in the last election)

So it’s older people who live in SE ( but maybe not London) and Midland shires and computer towns.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow 'So it’s older people who live in SE ( but maybe not London) and Midland shires and computer towns.'

Another generalisation based on absolutely nothing at all. You don't know that. Making assumptions is the root of this problem because you will always get it wrong to some extent.

My in-laws were members of a conservative club up north. They were Tory voters, but many members weren’t, it was just a nice comfortable place to go for a game of bingo and a (subsidised) drink.

I'm in my 60s, live in southeast, Conservative family background and I have voted Labour since I became old enough to think for myself.

It’s based on devolved governments and metropolitan cities. The majority of which are Labour.

It’s not a ‘generalisation’. It’s evidence.

Andy Burnham
Oliver Coppard
Tracey Brabin
Sidique Kahn

And the devolved governments speak for themselves.

But we do know that.

I genuinely don’t know why people are trying to deny reality.
Do you feel threatened by a voting trend being true in some way? I don’t get it.
You are older and not a Tory, good for you, no one is saying you have to be but there are very clear voting patterns, except for the huge conservative swing at the last election but there were some pretty exceptions circumstances and that was largely a 1 issue election.

As far as most older voters voting for the conservatives and living in the SE, but not london, what we do know is

• The Conservative party don’t run in NI so no MPs are voted in from there
• Wales has not elected a majority of conservative MPs in recent elections
• Scotland has not elected a majority conservative MPs in recent elections
• London does not vote for a majority of conservative MPs
• Until the last election the north of England did not historically vote for a majority of conservative MPs

I thought statistically older people were more likely to vote Tory & for Brexit? Statically not anecdotally. And that doesn't mean every older person votes Tory.

The same type of surveys were predicting an easy win for remain, which is why many remain voters didn't turn out, it was being sold as a done deal.

Remain were unmotivated, leave were motivated, which is why we got such a shit show.

I still know a few who will admit to voting leave, many more who say they wanted to remain and voted so, but what about all the remainers who couldn't be arsed to vote?

We should have had a vote on wether we wanted to JOIN in the first place, this could of all been sorted decades ago.

If you aren't a leftist when you're young you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative when you're older you don't have a brain.

My parents have both gone further to the left over the course of adulthood and so have I. From our experiences working in and using various services (NHS, education, social care, etc.) we can all see how they are being dangerously underfunded and the effect that has on young and old alike.

We should have had a vote on wether we wanted to JOIN in the first place, this could of all been sorted decades ago

There was a referendum in the 70’s and people voted to join. How can you not know this?

I am in my 50s and don't vote tory. Never have neither have my friends. Generalisation again .pil and dad never did either. Same as saying all older people baby boomers are rich.guardian had an article where 2 in 3 had no private pension.

We should have had a vote on wether we wanted to JOIN in the first place, this could of all been sorted decades ago.

Erm, decades ago we did! That's why we joined in the first place...

My jaw dropped when I read this.

And second, are you claiming that every single poll and study done into age and political ties are all false?
and here's the very issue I am complaining about. I never made such a claim - look back through my posts - it's not there, because it's not a claim I made.

Any argument is "if you're not this you're that" - and there's always more to it.

All I had to say about polls is that we should be realistic about how they work. I also continue to assert that whilst a statistical likelihood may have a high degree of confidence - it is subject to various potential errors and is not therefore to be regarded as a fact in the same way I'd assert the Earth is spherical is a fact.

Why do people not understand statistics? Honestly, work on maths teaching.

Referendum in 1975 was to confirm continuing membership (we actually joined in 1974)

Remain won.

To have been old enough to vote then, you needed to be born before 1957, so it's those age over 65.

But that was about the EEC. Which included free movement of goods services and people.

If we'd had a referendum on Maastrict, then perhaps that treaty would never have come in to force and we would still be in the EEC, rather than out of the EU.

The 1975 vote (yes I am just old enough to recall it) was not about whether to join - we were already members - it was leave/remain (although the question was yes/no IIRC).

No I was just asking because I didn't want to read the whole thread and I wasn't clear from your question.

What's Braveman against exactly? Is she against coming as an economic migrant, i.e. with a job to come to on a work visa or permanent residence agreement? Is this what her parents did? I know there was huge immigration intake at that time and they were given permanent residence here.

Yessss, those terrible Boomers voted to join Europe

Who isn't understanding statistics?

Well as usual - it's not that simple. We never had a vote about joining as a single issue. You could argue that electing (Tory) Ted Heath was us voting to join. Yes - it was a Tory policy to join.

No, l know, it was the war generation who voted on the EU in the 70’s.

And they would have wanted European unity.

No there wasn't, we have never had a referendum on JOINING.

How can you not know this?

Well it’s just words.

There was a referendum about the EU. The result was remain.