To think there should be more help for middle class families

[RootinandTootin]

This isn't a hate mongering post, those on lower incomes and can't work should be helped. My issue is that there seems to be little to no support at all for middle class families. Myself and partner work 5 days a week and have 2 kids. Not a terrible wage so I can't complain about that but the energy cost, food bills and fuel are going to cripple us soon enough. We also have Christmas to think about and a couple of birthdays inbetween. I just feel so unbelievably stressed out all the time about it. I'm praying this all calms down by the end of next year when our mortgage is coming up to renewal. There is pretty much no help being offered to us (unless anyone has some hints). I can't see it getting any better and its pretty depressing, alongside other personal issues going on at the moment I just want to cry.

Then why aren’t you chastising her? She said things far more offensive than I did, I least I was provoked. She wasn’t.

Because what she said was nothing to do with me. It was aimed at you. What you said was aimed at everyone in this thread. Including me. It was offensive, insensitive, and frankly nasty.

I agree. But just glimpse the university threads on MN to read the Oxbridge ones - depressing evidence right there that the class system, elitism and snobbery is alive and well - and thriving. God forbid that Tarquin might have to slum it at a RG uni… they’ve paid good money to make sure Tarquin doesn’t go to school with riff raff… etc etc.

You said you've owned 4 homes over the years. To loose all that equity, particularly during decades of very high rising housing prices ie; great for the owner, you'd gave to be particularly bad with money to loose everything. As in everything to the point you are now living completely in poverty.

Well I think it’s offensive for people with tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of ££££ in assets to appropriate the term “poverty” for their less than ideal financial situation.

You can be struggling. You can say it’s hard times. And I do have some sympathy, but to claim you’re in poverty is pretty offensive. And that’s not aimed at “everyone on this thread” because numerous posters who own their homes and are similar difficulties have said they do not think they are in poverty, that they feel they are actually quite lucky compared to, you know, those of us who are actually in poverty.

It’s not nasty to demand acknowledgement of reality.

But what you're suggesting isn't reality.

There is no point arguing with you because you're so arrogantly sure you're right despite several posters explaining why you're not.

I'm glad equity release worked in the short term for you. It is not a solution for the people on this thread.

Oh dear, you’ve forgotten about 2008. Or perhaps you are too young? Have only experienced house values going up?

And, when you cannot work at all and you cannot claim benefits sufficient to live on until your assets get to next to nothing, what do you think you live off until that happens? The equity or cash you get from selling your assets that’s what.

You really have no idea. You shouldn’t be advising me at all on “where I went wrong” with money management. I note you’ve not named any “opportunities” I have somehow failed to take advantage of despite saying i had no lack of opportunity. 🙄

Reality is you've said on the thread you've owned 4 houses over the years and now live in poverty. You've had the opportunities and privilege to own and enjoy the equity of 4 houses, you're now, as you say, living in poverty. It's not been a lack of opportunity in your case, based on what you have said on this thread.

Several posters have agreed with me on the poverty issue which is what this is about,

No ones disagreed with me on the existence of home equity loans….so…not sure what you mean by that comment.

As I said, I wasn’t advising or suggesting any solutions at all to anyone. I’m saying don’t claim you are in poverty when you aren’t. That’s not hard to comprehend.

So the complete lack of opportunity to work past age 39 is not a lack of opportunity? I’m seriously not following your reasoning. Lack of opportunity doesn’t mean zero opportunity your entire life. It means not enough opportunity to better your current situation.

You cannot say that someone is not in poverty because they have an asset. The reality is they're in poverty right now, and are until they can access the asset. You clearly struggle to comprehend what poverty actually means, in reality.

It is the availability of means, hear and now. You could own a 500k house fully paid off but if you can't afford to heat it or feed your children, you're in poverty.

If you then sell that house and live off the proceeds and can keep your house warm and feed your children and have 450k in your bank, excellent. You're now not in poverty and you have accesible means to live.

Assets are useless when you've got hungry and cold children today.

If you don't agree, that's absolutely fine, but I think you're completely wrong and actually really out of order telling people they can't complain.

It's not the race to the bottom you are oh so desperate for it to be.

Nope not too young. Nope not only experienced houses going up. Had health setbacks, yep, not seen equity/home ownership as a money game, Nope. Lived and grew up in poverty yep. Sensible with money yep. Not gonna give others wrong, out of date advise Nope.

@Catfordthefifth
I think you're completely wrong and actually really out of order telling people they can't complain.

I didn’t hth.

@Rosewaterblossom
Same here. But you have only suffered a “health setback” you haven’t suffered a complete derail into permanently and totally disabled.

I also haven't owned 4 houses nor am i ever likely to 🤷🏼‍♀️

You pretty much did. You said "don't claim you're in poverty" ....

Lucky you. I was forced to sell & buy repeatedly because my job kept moving me geographically. I lost so much in stamp duty and other transaction costs.

After saying “You can be struggling. You can say it’s hard times.” are those not complaints?

They are complaints. But you're specifically talking about poverty. You're saying they can't claim to be in poverty. Yes they can, because right now, they are.

Most younger people cannot even afford to buy once nowadays, let alone sell and buy 4 times complete with 4 x stamp duty and estate agents/solicitors fees. 🙄

So you are retracting this gem then as youve just admitted that I did in fact say people could complain when you claimed otherwise:

I think you're completely wrong and actually really out of order telling people they can't complain.

And no, I (and others on this thread) don’t agree with your definition of poverty.
We will have to agree to disagree.

I agree we all need to watch the pennies but what is the point in working out arses off if we can't enjoy life??
My husband and I work hard during the week so we can have nice times like meals out, day trips with our children because its those things that makes life living for. I don't see my children much during the week due to all the hours I work and for what??? Heating and fuel costs. When these millionaire's are enjoying their private yachts on their own islands. The government should be taxing those and not us.
I don't believe in handouts but as a middle earner I am going to need some help soon.
It will come to a point when people see that being on benefits makes life more affordable and will quit working.

Yes I know, the younger generation has it very tough. Poverty rates are higher for them.

Im sure you’re savvy enough to realise that being forced to sell & buy eats away at the equity you build up. Yes? So “all that equity” wasn’t as much as you might have been thinking it was.

From your previous posts you said you released equity/got second mortgage. That's going to effect the money you make the most and usual a very bad decision.

Most people who sell and then buy use the equity to upgrade in what they buy (in years gone by rather than the current market.) Unless they downsize, in which case they make money too.

I get the funded hours at three years old. It's prior to this I think is unnecessary. The money should in my option be put towards working parents who have to fund the under threes to return to work to make their fees more affordable.