To think there should be more help for middle class families

[RootinandTootin]

This isn't a hate mongering post, those on lower incomes and can't work should be helped. My issue is that there seems to be little to no support at all for middle class families. Myself and partner work 5 days a week and have 2 kids. Not a terrible wage so I can't complain about that but the energy cost, food bills and fuel are going to cripple us soon enough. We also have Christmas to think about and a couple of birthdays inbetween. I just feel so unbelievably stressed out all the time about it. I'm praying this all calms down by the end of next year when our mortgage is coming up to renewal. There is pretty much no help being offered to us (unless anyone has some hints). I can't see it getting any better and its pretty depressing, alongside other personal issues going on at the moment I just want to cry.

I didn't say it was impossible. Just to CORRECT you there. I'm saying it's not as easy as you're making it out to be, not is it a good solution for someone who cannot afford their current bills. It will not feed your children, today, tomorrow or next week. You'd be lucky if it fed them next month and THEN you've got to figure out how you pay that extra £130 a month you now owe.

It is not a solution for having no money right now it just isn't. You can argue until you're blue in the face but you are wrong.

You've said on this thread you've had over the years owned 4 houses, and now state you own none. Along with the incredibly bad advice, statements, stories, whatever you want to call it, you are in your position because you have been bad with money/don't understand money/think releasing equity/taking a 2nd mortgage is a breezy decision to make. You've clearly taken that decision, don't understand the implications of doing so and sold because you see property as a frivolous game. More fool you.

You’re so ignorant it’s hilarious really. That’s not how a home equity loan works, you don’t need a sale price to calculate equity. It’s done via a valuation by the bank which can be done remotely looking at comparable sales or the bank sends an appraiser round.

I am not suggesting anyone does this. I am simply correcting you on your faulty claim that a person has no way to access their home equity without selling their home. This is false. A lie. You can. I did when I had to.

Considering they borrowed this money because they had nothing left?
You don’t do this when you have absolutely nothing left, you do it when you have a shortfall of outgoings exceeding income. Due to a crisis of some sort that you hope will be temporary. But you don’t want to be in a situation where you’re not paying your mortgage.

And yes, sometimes a payment of £138/mo is affordable compared to racking up £20k on credit cards.

No I do get it, I'm suggesting they sell because they can't afford to pay it back. Because they're skint. Obv.

It's still reliant on a valuation, so it's the same premise really isn't it. If they value it lower you can borrow less. Yes? Yes.

Again, I didn't say they have no way, I said it's not always as easy as you made it out to be and nor is it instant cash. Both of those things are true.

We were on the subject of feeding children and you claimed it could. It can't. You're now saying it's not if you have £0 so it's essentially completely fucking irrelevant to the thread, isn't it?

Nobody wants to be in a situation where they can't pay their mortgage, but increasing it does not solve that at all does it, if exacerbates it.

If you hadnt noticed, this doesn't appear to be a temporary situation. It's going to be a rough ride for some years according to economists.

@Comedycook a single income of £60k is a form of not being very well off that I'd like to try. So many people are on much less even with top ups.

I don’t know what ‘middle income’ is exactly, but I assume it’s an income with lots of wiggle room so times like these aren’t too detrimental to your life. Our bills, food and petrol costs have gone up by £800 per month (husband travels a lot) I am at home most days so heating is on if it’s cold and electricity is used. Two toddlers with nursery fees that I suspect will also increase but we haven’t had to dip into our savings and still have disposable income with Christmas sorted. We’re okay and are donating more to food banks and we’re buying lots of toys for the Salvation Army to dish out to those who need them for Christmas. Also helping out family. I believe we’re ‘middle income’ and I wouldn’t accept any help, we don’t need it. The £66 per month has been added to our energy accounts but we’re putting the equivalent into charities.

you need some support but it wasn’t wise to put ‘middle class’ in your title as it does give those with middle incomes a bad rep. ‘Class’ is an awful word as it is but the main thing is that it’s working class and those on low incomes that need help, although most aren’t getting it.

those with middle incomes should be in a position to be able to help others, in my view, rather than need help themselves.

For the last time, I have given NO ADVICE.
I was left for dead by a hit and run driver suffering catastrophic and life changing injuries which made me 100% unable to work at age 39. THAT is why I lost my home. (You can troll through my posting history, this is known about me for ages)

You have NO FUCKING idea what I lived through. It was a crisis. I am not bad with money at all. YOU try living with no way to work.

@Catfordthefifth
We were on the subject of feeding children and you claimed it could.
We were not on the subject of feeding children. You introduced that in terms of “you can’t sell a house in time to feed your children” comment, to which I replied only takes 3 weeks to get a home equity loan. You don’t need to sell your home to feed your kids and most people can project out 3 weeks to see if they will run out of money and need more to feed their children.

@Catfordthefifth
If you hadnt noticed, this doesn't appear to be a temporary situation. It's going to be a rough ride for some years according to economists.

Thats temporary because the opposite of temporary is permanent. This isn’t going to last the rest of our lives.

I had a stroke in my 30s, I know what it's like to have limits. If you are renting now, having lost houses previously, you are in no position to be commenting on people's position when it comes to owning/mortgages now. You're comments, not "advice ", are out of date and not helpful to people nowadays as home owners.

Aghhhhh. Are you on a different planet? There are literally thousands of people who cannot feed their kids. Who have nothing left. They don't have three fucking weeks. And if they did, they couldn't afford the repayments. You're very proud of the fact you did this, and bully for you, but it's not the solution you're painting it to be. It's increasing debt. That is NOT A GOOD IDEA when you're already skint.

But it's not temporary enough to release equity from your house and have to repay it back. It's not a couple of months out of work. It is years.

I agree OP. There are a lot of people just on the other side of low income - getting by in recent years with a car and holiday once a year, but with the cost of living crisis are really struggling to pay bills. Middle income families are the ones always ignored by political parties.

It’s just the way it is. You just have to accept that it will get better one day but things might be tight for a year or so. Eat less, wear more and don’t go OTT at Xmas etc.

Why should we just lay back and accept it though?

Should we have just accepted not having the vote? Should we simply accept we have a shit government who literally wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire?

No!

I would happily protest except they're not trying to make that illegal too.

WTAF. I am stating that anyone that owns their home is not genuinely in poverty.
I have a right to say this. Because I am in poverty. I know what poverty really is.

My comments are not advice and not meant to be helpful. What kicked all this off was a post saying that MC homeowners can cry poverty when really they have no idea what real poverty is. Feeling poor doesn’t actually make a person poor. Its similar to how Boris Johnson famously called his £240k/yr job “chicken feed” and cried poverty…..

Out of date? Are you seriously claiming home equity loans no longer exist? They do. Are you claiming that mortgages work in some new way that’s changed recently? They don’t.

Face it. You just want a government handout. You think that your hard work means you’re entitled to keep your lifestyle during an economic crisis. It entitles you to exactly nothing. As I’m sure your parents told you, life is not fair.

I’m not “proud” what planet are you on? Again, you stated incorrectly that a person cannot access the equity in their home without selling it. That’s all this has been about. You can say what you like, but you were wrong.

That’s the thing about economic crises, there is no magic money tree. The country has a black hole of debt and unfunded public services. You have no choice but to accept and make do as best you can. Protesting is a waste of money.

Again, no, I didn't. Hth.

That is just fucking offensive. It is not the same as Boris Johnson crying poor to his massive wage. It is not comparable at all. You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment.

As someone who has apparently lost it all, where the fuck is your empathy?

You've owned homes and taken advantage of the equities, your now in poverty but not because of lack of opportunity.

I don't want a government handout,I'm not a middle earner, nor am i midfle class and don't have a lifestyle to keep up either. I grew up in poverty, i'm working class, had a job as soon as I left school as uni was never an option and went from there.

Oh, I’m offensive, did you even read what she said to me? Back off.

To be honest the western economy has been high on cheap credit for decades. The government can't afford to bail everything out or save everyone. It's going to be a painful few years if they borrow more it will have to paid back causing more pain.

Yes, I did. What you said was offensive. Whatever anyone else said does not negate that.

How dare you. “Not because of lack of opportunity”?! What opportunities do I have? Come on, I have none as you very well know.