Was I rude/wrong in this situation?

[clankist]

Was out walking my two seven month chihuahuas today. I have treated them like dogs from day one and they are very well trained. They walk off lead absolutely fine and don't bother other dogs at all, however if a dog comes running over to them they will bolt.

Today I was walking them off lead and there were two big golden retriever with two women who were chatting. We were quite a distance away but one of the retrievers started barking and running towards me/my dogs. I put my hand out in a 'stop' motion as it got closer. I said, 'stop' and when that didn't work I said 'no'. That didn't work either and my dogs started to run away.

I moved away from the dogs and began to call for my dogs but the retriever kept following me so my dogs were standing watching at a distance but wouldn't come over due to the dog being next to me. I shouted across to the woman, 'can you please get your dog?' No reply and she continued talking.

I moved away again, calling my dogs and the dog followed me again. I looked at the lady and shouted, 'can you get your dog?' She didn't move.

I moved away again and the dog followed once again, at this point I was exasperated and said a little sternly, 'will You move your dog!?'

She came over and said, 'my dog isn't anywhere near your dogs' rudely.

I said, 'yeah because they ran away terrified due to your dog coming up to them. If your dog is off lead it shouldn't be running up to my dogs'

She went to say something but I just held up my hand and said, 'thank you'.

I then continued my walk with my dogs and the lady met another dog walker who then started pointing to me and shaking their head.

Did I do the right thing to deal with this situation or was I too sensitive? I just think you shouldn't have your dog off the lead unless you know they will not approach any other dogs without permission.

As you know they bolt if other dogs come near why don't you put them on the lead if there are other dogs loose? You can't control what other people or dogs do you can only control what you do. I don't think you were very rude but I would handle it differently from now on.

So on a lead they are even more vulnerable if big dogs run over and the larger dogs' owners don't call them back.

I've been in a situation with two Chihuahuas on a lead when large dogs rush us -- without the abilty to retreat, my dogs were terrified.

The whole dog issue is beside the point. The situation is that the OP was calling out for help, the other woman knew that, and continued her conversation, ignoring the OP and failing to take action. Rude, rude, rude.

They have no recall. They shouldn't be off the lead if they ran off and don't come back.

Quite a few people here saying dog offlead means it's fair game to play /interact.
That is DEFINITELY not good etiquette! Dogs should be trained not to run up to other dogs, on or off lead, it is very triggering for other dogs and poor manners for dogs. It's often better to have a brief conversation at a distance about whether it's ok to approach for both the dog's safety.

Whilst I agree that neither owner were fully in control of their dog here, I cannot believe the number of people who equate a dog being off lead to being fair game to be approached by anything and everything!

The my dogs ‘friendly’ brigade who have yet to realise their dog is actually an annoying badly/ un-trained idiot.

Both my dogs are competitive obedience trained and have no particular interest in other dogs but regularly get pestered by dogs who won’t leave them alone, try and hump them etc but apparently ok because they are ‘friendly’. Teach your dog manners!

Having one's own dogs on a lead doesn't prevent off-leash dogs from running over and frightening them, or oneself. I don't like to be rushed by large animals whether my Chihuahuas are with me or not.

If the woman wasn't prepared to keep her dogs from being a nuisance, SHE should have had hers on a lead. The OP's dogs were not the ones creating a problem here. It is baffling how many posters either will not or cannot admit that.

I agree that if you let your dogs off the lead then you can expect other dogs to interact with them. It was rude of the woman to ignore you but I think you were unreasonable and behaved unpleasantly. Dogs shouldn't be off leads unless well socialised.

It's disappointing that the other owner didn't react to the situation, that was wrong.
But if you know your dirty react like the when does bark you should consider whether taking them off less is appropriate because it's not unreasonable for other dogs to run and bark.
Also the hand up and thank you wouldn't have sat well with me, a bit cocky.

I find it ironic you were frustrated at the woman not calling her dog when you admit your own dogs wouldn’t even come when called. If you cannot trust them off lead, keep them on. You’ve only had them 3/4 months max? So they can’t be that well trained. I think you were rude and I’d be very bemused if I was the other dog walker

Exactly!

What if the OP's dogs had not bolted but rather cowered at her feet while the big dogs menaced them -- would it THEN be OK for her to call to the dog's owner asking them to be summoned?

Her dogs weren't bothering or menacing anyone. BIG difference.

If they were on lead, they'd not have been able to retreat from what apparently is a frightening situation for them. Would that be better? I don't appreciate my dogs being cornered by aggressive larger animals.

You can't control the behaviour of other people or their dogs. Even well-trained and well-behaved dog sometimes respond unexpectedly. When dogs are off-lead the assumption is that they are fine to mix with other off-lead dogs. When you encounter a person walking in open countryside or the park with a dog on a lead, you assume that their dogs aren't good with other dogs and you call your dogs away or put them on a lead. But your dogs were off-lead, so it's up to you to ensure that your dogs don't/ can't run off if another dog approaches. You can ask people if they would put their dog on a lead or call them away, please, but you can't dictate.

I understand that very small dogs can find it difficult to be approached by much larger dogs. Perhaps you need to work with a trainer on building your dogs' confidence and making them more relaxed round big dogs.

OP says herself her dogs weren't recalling to her either though - so none of the dogs were under control.

If OP had her dogs on the lead, she could have just walked past and carried on with her walk.

The OP has not actually said the dogs did anything other than run over. How does this mean they were menacing?

Why does this happen all of the time.

OPs started a thread asking if they are BU - the vast majority say yes YABU but they still won’t accept it.

My dog has brilliant recall and is sociable, likes a play but sometimes other dogs get too excited after a chase and start bumping and being too boisterous etc so I walk away and call mine to follow me and the other owner is weakly trying to get their dog back who’s completely ignoring them chasing mine down and sometimes trying to jump at me too! So no YANBU and if your dog is off the lead you should be watching it especially if it is big!

Menacing? OP admits it wasn’t chasing her dogs and they ended up a distance apart 😂 a dog saying hello to other off lead dogs isn’t menacing. It didn’t follow when they weren’t interested and didn’t corner them at all. Did you even read??

I've been in a situation with two Chihuahuas on a lead when large dogs rush us -- without the abilty to retreat, my dogs were terrified.

Thing is, they're chihuahuas. They can be outrun by pretty much anything. So if they run and the other dog pursues, what then? I mean, I get that it's the fault of the other dogs for pursuing but you have no control over that. Whereas you can get your dogs on the lead and if need be, pick them up and then yell at the other dogs to go away.

Having your dog off the lead does imply that you are happy for other dogs to approach. If I see a dog with a lead on, I put mine on a lead, or I call her back if I can see that another off lead dog doesn't want to interact with her, but I'm not going to bellow across a field asking for permission, sorry but that is just daft.

Have you done any socialisation training with your dogs?

My dog has great recall except when playing with other dogs (he only plays if they come to him) . And at 42 kilo he's a bit big for most dogs. He loves to be offlead but I only do it where there's no other dogs near as off lead suggests suitable to play and because of his size he's not really suitable. That's my responsibility not other owners. I'd say don't have your dogs off lead around other dogs unless they are happy to play.
The other owner was rude for not calling her dog (assuming she cud hear you) but yes it's rude to put your hand up.

You were both in the wrong. If you're an experienced dog owner you'll know that nervous dogs, who dont want to be approached by other dogs should be on a lead. If dogs are off leads that generally means dogs run around!

But, when you wanted her dogs to be recalled she should have done so. No doubt there at all.

But you were rude the way you handled the conversation.

You were rude and you should have put your dogs back on the lead when you saw the other off-lead dogs.

As a fellow dog owner I think you should have had your dogs leashed if they are not sociable with other dogs. Our dog is extremely friendly and will generally ignore other dogs if we distract him with a ball etc but we use the rule of thumb that if another dog is leashed we assume that dog needs space and we leash our dog or distract him until he's well past that dog. If another dog is off leash we assume the owner has trained and socialised their dog well enough that their dog can interact safely with other dogs and people and that they are happy for their dog to do so. I would have let my dog approach your dog on the grounds they were off leash although I would have also been keeping an eye and I know my boys recall is very solid so I would have called him back if you'd asked. I think if your dogs are nervous around others and bolt and don't have a solid recall then it's on you to leash them. And yes sticking your hand in someone's face when they go to say something and not letting them speak is rude, for all you know she was about to apologise. If your dogs are prone to bolting then other larger dogs could see them as either playing or prey depending on their breed and you would have absolutely no control over what happens next to two very small dogs.

@clankist apologising that she has to recall her otherwise friendly dogs due to the fact that yours have bolted and therefore it has become an issue.

They were definitely in the wrong too and their response was rude/unhelpful but at that moment in time, when the priority was getting your dogs back, I would have sucked up the fact that it wouldn't have happened in the first place if their dogs were under control and focused on the fact that it also wouldn't have happened if you had had yours under control too - I would have apologised for that and not shifted all the blame on them and inflamed the situation.

There dogs should have been on the lead/recalled immediately. Yours should've been on the lead given that you can't trust other people to do the former. You can only really change one thing.

Your question was whether you were rude or wrong? Yes.

You were wrong to have your dogs off the lead if you know that there is a situation where they will bolt from you and not return. If dogs are off lead it indicates to other dog owners that they are safe to interact with other dogs and respond to their owners well enough to protect their safety and that of other dogs.

What you did to the other woman was also rude, seeing as you asked that too, but actually the entire situation was your fault. But I don't think you actually want to hear that or consider that, I think you just want to be told you are in the right because you felt embarrassed and outraged when she pointed you out to another dog owner for your behaviour and want to ease that feeling.

It sounds like you've done a good job starting to train your dogs. Time for recall now x