...to want to know travel details when my ex is taking kids abroad?

[Tangledweb2022]

My ex husband is taking our two kids (9 and 11) abroad for the first time next week. They are going to Paris. I know this because the kids told me. I have asked their dad to give me their flight details-I'm not asking for their full itinerary I just want to know when they're in the air and what city they are in. I've asked politely several times but am getting no response at all. Our separation agreement states we need to give written info on travel details when going abroad but he seems to be ignoring this. I don't normally get into on where they are when they're away, but this is first time they've been abroad and feels different. AIBU?

@user1471494928
”I’ve not heard of the stamp but you’re not allowed to take a child abroard without written consent of the other parent if you are married and a lot of airports will demand written proof of this before they will let you board”

This just isn’t true.
Anyone with PR with whom the child resides can take them abroad for up to 28 days without consent, let alone written consent.
My ex and I have been divorced for 12 years, and have taken our children abroad at least 2x a year each (except 2020/21) ever since.
Neither of us have ever been challenged by the departing airport.
My ex - who shares a surname with our children - has never been questioned on entering any country (inc multiple EU, Thailand and USA).
My children have been asked questions about 3x, whilst I dug out the letter my ex and I made for each other, always on re-entry to UK.

To all those talking about terrorist attacks, how many of you give your parents your flight numbers when you go on holiday? I’m suspecting not many, because of the % of planes affected this way is minimal.

Of course, if it happened to me I’d kick myself that I hadn’t asked.

But you would call your ex, who would say “not us” or the airline who would say “we have the manifest and those names aren’t on it”.

And yeah, you wouldn’t be able to get through if it was a 9/11 situation, but that is rare.

The closest I’ve been to this situation is the Manchester bombing, when my ex took my kids to the Ariana Grande concert. All I knew was that they were away in Manchester for the weekend, until I got a text saying, “when you see the news, we got out and are driving home now.”

If I’m not going to ask for a detailed itinerary for frequent weekends in the UK, I don’t need it for occasional trips abroad.

It doesn’t hurt anyone to give a flight number, so sure - why not, it’s not effort to give it. But I personally don’t ever feel the need.

If your children entered the US, Canada, Mexico (or probably others) then you provided written and legally witnessed consent for your ex to take them. So your responses to the OP simply wanting to know where her children are is disingenuous at best.

@user1471494928 is correct. Unless a court order is in place, either parent needs consent.

"You automatically have parental responsibility if you’re the child’s mother, but you still need the permission of anyone else with parental responsibility before you take the child abroad.

You can take a child abroad for 28 days without getting permission if a child arrangement order says the child must live with you, unless a court order says you can’t."

(UK govt website.)

Obviously your children have been asked only on re-entry to the UK. There is no border control leaving. Not everyone will be stopped and asked, no resources for that. Rightly or wrongly, woman travelling alone with child- unlikely to be stopped. Man travelling alone with child-whether stopped or not, ppt check will be more detailed.

That's why you submit API so airlines and ports have potential child abduction risks (among other things) flagged up.

The surname thing is irrelevant. The UK advises taking a consent letter for ANY minor travelling without both parents. Other countries don't advise it, they insist upon it and it has to be notarised.

@PAFMO “Obviously your children have been asked only on re-entry to the UK. There is no border control leaving.”

I know there’s no border control on leaving.
It’s @user1471494928 who is saying that “airports” will check it before you board. what she means by that, I don’t know - check in desk? Online check? The person at the gate? Neither my husband nor I have ever been questioned by anyone in the “airport”.

You might not have been checked but that doesn’t mean they won’t ever. It happens a lot in the eu, I have seen it happen in Germany when going through security(there was no passport control) and amsterdam is pretty strict about it.

Details of travel arrangements is simply fly or car&ferry not flight number. Also how old were the kids at divorce? If they were young then fair enough, he needs to inform you whereas by 9&11 they can tell you they are taking the train or plane to Paris!

Try to chill on this one, keeping things in proportion will make coparenting so much better for the next 10 years.

YANBU but people on here always say you need to mind your own business when they're with the other parent.

I would want to know where my children were going & who with. Surely that's a normal thing to want to know? A trip abroad isn't the same as a normal weekend at their other parent's home.

I would also want to know who else was in the family home - so new partner/their children. Apparently on here that's also classified information 🤷🏻‍♀️

@PAFMO It was one of those and no I didn't provide anything. I'm not being disingenous, or untruthful. I have also taken my kids abroad without him and was never asked for anything. That's beside the point of the OP though - which I think has been answered in all possible ways now:

1. Its in a legal agreement so he has to
2. Its not hard to to provide so he should and is being a twat by not
3. Its not unreasonable to want to know details in case of incidents or just for peace of mind
4. There's no real need assuming you trust the other parent not to abscond.

None of those answers are wrong

If your children went abroad with school, would you be happy for the school who would be acting in loco parentis to not give you details of travel and where they are staying or are you happy to wave them off with no information? To my mind this constitutes the same thing.

To all those talking about terrorist attacks, how many of you give your parents your flight numbers when you go on holiday? I’m suspecting not many, because of the % of planes affected this way is minimal.

I don't give my parents my specific flight number but I will have discussed my trip with them as well as various other family/friends beforehand so they will know, from our conversation, which flight I'm on and the general times involved.

I'm not going to specifically say "I'm flying from Manchester Airport to Paris CDG at 10.27am on Monday 17th of October on BA12345, arriving at CDG at 12.07pm ... Are you writing this down?"

But I am going to say, as part of a conversation about my upcoming holiday "I can't wait for our trip to Paris next week ... Yeah we fly at half ten Monday morning so we're getting the first train direct to the airport at 6am .... Liverpool had cheaper flights but you know what a faff it is to get to the airport on the train/bus and I didn't want to have to deal with the car so we're going from Manchester as it's direct ... No we aren't checking bags but I don't want to risk a train delay meaning we miss check in - remember that time I had to run the length of Terminal 2 in less than 5 minutes because we got stuck outside Preston for an hour? .... Anyway we get into CDG just after lunchtime and check in for the hotel is 2pm so by the time we're through the airport and onto the city we should be able to drop our bags, freshen up maybe even have a quick nap before our dinner reservation at Ooh La La restaurant on the Champs Elysées"

Then whilst on the journey to/in the airport we will usually post a social media/family WhatsApp update to the family to let them know we got to the airport and checked in (#AirportLoungeSelfie with the obligatory glass of wine even if it is 8am, we're on our holidays) and then when we've arrived I'll send a message to the family WhatsApp saying we arrived safely and then get a slew of "Enjoy your hols!/Have a great time!" type messages.

@GarageGalore of course traveling with the school isn't the same as traveling with a parent who has PR. They have to give you travel arrangements for a parent to give permission. Our children's act and child laws are very specific. As said permission from the other parent isn't needed if the trip is under 28 days and out of term time, unless stated in a legal agreement. What you personally think I'd irrelevant.

This is a power play but it isn't worth going to battle over.

Personally I understand why you want to know this information as a parent your entitled to know where they are going flight details hotel names etc just incase of anything god for bid

The same with your Ex husband if he also wanted to know this information if you was taking the kids away to

Especially it's the first time you'll be worrying don't feel ashamed or bad for this your a mum and us mums worry

I do hope you have a lovely mum free week and your kids enjoy their little break with dad x

Also I feel like he should give you to ease your worry to make you know everything will be okay I think it's nothing hard to do especially if it's the first time Maybe the more he takes them away on holidays and stuff the less you'll ask x

@Testina @saraclara
The country is Brazil and all passports for under 18s have that stamp with the restriction. It's not optional, and the passport office issues the documents with it regardless of you want/like it or not 🤷‍♀️
It doesn't look like bullshit on the grounds of this thread, does it?

Not quite.

You can take them abroad without the written consent of the other parent as long as you have a lives with order, if you don’t then you need the letter of consent from the other parent.

So I have a lives with/spends time with order for my kids. So I can leave the country without my ex’s consent for up to 28 days, he would need the letter from me however as he doesn’t have a lives with order.

Actually yes I would give my parents my flight number so they can watch me on flight radar app

Years back we told my nan we were in London for the day there was a mass terrorist incident (pre mobile phone) she spent hours calling all her children one by one (we were together) to make sure we were all safe we had zero clue what had happened

Surely if it was written into the separation paperwork, you can remind him he is required to give the info, & if he doesnt they're not going.
You're not asking what hotel etc. (So as to check the price etc)
Kind if depends if this is worth getting into a fight over

In Scotland here and we always travel with a letter signed by her Mum giving us permission to travel with my DSD. Her Mum and SD have a similar letter signed by my DH. We’ve only ever had it show it once (same surnames) but they’ve been asked three times (different surnames). Better safe than sorry.

I just can't for the life of me understand why any parent wouldn't want to know, or demand to know, when and where their young kids were travelling to.

I would be beside myself with worry if I knew something terrible had happened in the country or on a flight they could potentially be on, who wouldn't want information that could reassure them.

I'm just imagining my DH packing up DS to take him on holiday for a week. Not mentioning to me where they were going, just taking passports and leaving me. That would be very strange and unnerving. I think it's completely reasonable to want to know where your children are going without you. For example, thinking back to the volcanic ash cloud a few years back. Knowing which country they were in would give you a good indication on if they would be caught up in delays etc.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you wouldn't know the gist, country, resort and day of travel but beyond that, no, I really don't need to know. To be honest I don't really need to know exact day unless it involves me in some way. I'm sorry if that's so difficult for some to imagine but that's my reality.

Do you provide their father with all this information of you take them abroad or is it just another petty control, like the passports?

When I took DC overseas on holiday ex was provided with all details of country, plane/ship departures/arrivals and accomodation abroad. Also day of return and routes back....as per court agreement. Pity I was often the only parent sticking to court agreement.