Trip to Pakistan with dad or grandmother - identity card or visa on British passport?

[FeelingGuilty151]

So I was wondering about what would be the most sensible thing to do as my nana and dad have suggested that I go to Pakistan with either of them next year at some point when they go

They suggested I apply for a Pakistani identity card (NIPOC or Pakistani origin card) for overseas Pakistanis and their relatives and offspring as it would give me indefinite visa free access to the country with no restrictions, allowing possible employment, bank account creations and buying land. Or the alternative is a time restricted visa

I am more swayed towards applying for a visa on my British passport as perhaps the identity card could cause issues with the British Home office from helping me if I ever needed to be brought back to the UK

what would you suggest I do?

That can be the case, of course. But there are also great numbers of people, male and female, who choose to have arranged marriages, who are educated, self sufficient, can be professionals. Lots of western pakistanis have arranged marriages. Lots of arranged marriages are happy ones.

Read my posts. I see red flags all over what OP has said but your sweeping generalisations I obviously don’t agree with. I’m glad you are well travelled so I’m finding it odd you have this idea that is the case for everyone that they have a forced marriage. Certainly not in my experience with the people I known and have studied with so clearly there is a different culture there amongst families and from everything else. I wrote clearly in my post it doesn’t mean people like you don’t have forced marriage. You conveniently skipped that bit too.

I've been back and forth to Pakistan all my life and have never been worried about an arranges or forced marriage.
It's a very diverse country and many of my female relatives work and have good careers. Some were introduced to potential partners and some met their own. They have a good standard of living and are happy.
However, forced or pressured marriages do happen and I d be suspicious in your situation. Personally, I'd say don't go.

I also hope you know there are many British ex pat families living very successfully in Pakistan!

Exactly this. Yes, it happens, but it shouldn't be assumed, by any stretch.

OP needs to work out if she is personally at risk, and if in doubt, should not go. At the same time, people should be careful of racist stereotyping.

Sorry OP.

Though Pakistan is indeed a lovely place to visit,with the information in your posts I dont think now is the right time for you to visit.

When I first read your post, I thought well there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the identity card. I am Indian and have the Indian version. It is just standard, my dad usually mentions it whenever anybody goes, to get the overseas identity card out and its saved us a lot in visa costs over the years.
However, I don’t have a family who don’t let me go out of town etc etc. After reading your posts, I think you are better off not going given the proposals you’ve gotten etc I would just avoid it for now.

OP, if you do nothing else please contact Karma Nirvana (karmanirvana.org.uk ) and tell them what you have told us, even tell them the responses that you have had, and listen to their advice. They are a brilliant organisation who deal with situations like this all the time and will be able to advise and support you. If nothing else they should be able to give advice on how to safeguard your situation here.

if you go to their website there is a contact page where you can email them your details. If you would like a more immediate response there is a free helpline 0800 5999 247. It’s just a phone call that could either give you reassurance or it could save you a world of pain and heartache.

good luck with whatever you choose.

OP please don’t go, I used to teach Pakistani girls who were seriously caught out with arranged marriages after going on ‘holiday’. One piece of great advice is to put something small and metal in your knickers to set off the X-ray machines at the airport if you are being

The vast majority of Muslim parents would never force a marriage. But I do know of such cases, and this situation has lots of red flags that would worry me. I agree with the majority here - I wouldn't go, full stop. There is too much risk here, and why would they even begin to think you'd be ok with a visa "in case you want to stay".

You shouldn't do this. But if you are going to ignore all the red flags here, then please ensure that you have plenty of friends who know where you are, and store their numbers plus the police and the consulate numbers on a new phone that you keep hidden on your person AT ALL TIMES. Use your normal phone for everything so that nobody suspects you have another one. Keep the second phone muted so that nobody accidentally rings it. At the first hint of anything, start telling EVERYONE that you believe you are in danger and get the hell out.

karmanirvana.org.uk/

Sorry no idea what happened there

karmanirvana.org.uk/get-help/what-is-forced-marriage/

https://karmanirvana.org.uk/get-help/what-is-forced-marriage/

OK, no idea why MN is mangling the links but please google Karma Nirvana

@Ispini : this is good advice. I don’t think people realise how many girls even get taken to the airport thinking they are just heading off on a family day out, hence my advice to OP to get rid of her passport

Neither. Don’t go

Yes it's very common and not at all making racist assumptions as some posters are suggesting. We wouldn't minimise other forms of domestic abuse on here so i'm not sure why we need to be careful not to make assumptions when there is enough in what OP has written to have serious concerns. In my line of work I would be in serious trouble if I didn't make some assumptions on these posts and refer to safeguarding to be on the safe side. Of course OP is not a minor but given the type of control her parents have had over her and all the other information she has provided us and her own concerns, she sounds to me quite vulnerable. I find it common in my community for some 'well meaning' people to advise potential victims to not seek advice from people outside the community due to racism etc and whilst in some cases there is racism and stereotyping at play, no community members are offering help for victims themselves but only seem to bash the 'outsider' agencies or in this case, outsider views but there are a few of a us asian women on here telling the OP to not go so I hope that's sending the message to OP that all does not sound okay and no racism at play. and I have a feeling OP posted on this forum as opposed to asking her own community as she wanted neutral advice so let's give her good advice to be on the safe side rather than telling her to make her own judgement etc when she probably has no idea what the potential outcomes could be in a scenario like this.

Do you live in Pakistan? I do. These are hardly ‘sweeping generalisations’ to anyone who knows the culture from living in Pakistan itself, not just going on random holidays or making judgements based on ‘people I have known and studied with’.

And no, I haven’t had an arranged marriage myself. About half of my friends here have, and so have 100% of our domestic workers. The risk is very high for OP, and you must see that if you read how her parents treat her and the circumstances of their proposal to go.

It is irresponsible NOT to encourage OP to stay away.

I have no idea what the last sentence in your post means about what I ‘conveniently skipped’.

Do your research: about 50% of marriages in Pakistan are arranged. And the majority of parents who want this for their children behave exactly as OP’s parents have done with the control of adult daughters, the constant checking and tracking.

I honestly think you have trouble with comprehension regarding my posts. Read them carefully. Yes yours are definitely sweeping generalisations and in today’s very well connected world I do not need to live in Pakistan long term to know the different societies operating there. It really isn’t a secret so I’m not sure what your goal is here by trying to prove all marriages there are forced and all women who have them are treated like chattel. The fact that you say (all) British people will hate it there makes me question whether you actually live there yourself as there is a huge ex pat community living in ex pat communities, even people from villages know this and they’re nothing like the environments you describe. So yes absolutely these are sweeping generalisations and no cultured person would actually make them if they are genuinely ‘well travelled’ the way you imply you are. You are using references from your own bubble to say this applies to the entire population not accounting for those that don’t lead your lifestyle or your maids and what not. And I never contested how many marriages are arranged or whether they actually occur. Please reference your research as it seems you got 50% out of the sky. I would actually expect it to much more than that as Pakistan is a conservative country in general and the communities I talk about are not the majority but they definitely exist in large enough number. I would have no idea how many of those are forced and how many are not as I would need to see the research done and the evidence. But you seem to equate all arranged marriages as forced in Pakistan anyway…

Another one saying please don't go OP. As others have said you probably wouldn't have to face physical force/being drugged etc but this sudden offer after you split with your GF and your family's controlling behaviour are massive red flags. You are very likely to get emotional blackmail, lots of pressure and tears at a point when you are very alone and many miles from home. Good luck

I’m sorry op but this is sounding dodgy. You say she is changed but it’s hard to know for sure and once she is there and surrounded by everyone she knows it could all go pear shaped.

Pakistan is a very different country and women have very little say so if something goes wrong, you are basically trapped. I wouldn’t personally go atm.

Pakistani origin here. Don't go. What they say here and what happens there may be two different things.

I have the reading comprehension problem? Let’s take a look at your own comments:

‘The fact that you say (all) British people will hate it there makes me question whether you actually live there yourself as there is a huge ex pat community living in ex pat communities, even people from villages know this and they’re nothing like the environments you describe.’

No, I never said that “(all) British people will hate it there’. You invented those words yourself: that is 100% your own sweeping generalisation. I did say that I hate living here and I gave reasons why.

And I am very active int eh expat community you describe because I am a dual passport holder: ALL of the expats I know spend considerable time grumbling about the issues I mentioned. Literally all of them. And I go to UK and US consulate sponsored social events on a weekly basis.

I can’t understand what part of my post you think is untrue. I stated that at least half of marriages are arranged in Pakistan and this is true: you can find the statistics online yourself.

I mentioned the filth and pollution, and that’s true and verifiable via many reputable sources as well. It is not a ‘sweeping generalisation’ to mention that the filthy air and water are ‘a thing’ in major Pakistani cities: do your research, it is hardly a secret. You mentioned Lahore yourself: it is one of the most polluted, filthy cities on the planet, and don’t take my word for it: do some research yourself, because there are many published reports with facts and comparison you can read yourself. Karachi and Islamabad are also badly polluted, and I do think these things are relevant because the air and water pollution is something expats notice right away. OP should be aware of these things if she is in a position where she may be forced to stay in a place like this. I don’t want her to be coaxed into accepting a situation, which I have seen happen to other women who are then appalled when they find what their new reality entails.

There are some good things about life in Pakistan, but the negatives vastly outweigh them for me, and I still contend that the OP is at high risk of being forced into a marriage by her family. I know parents like hers, and the signs are all there.

Also she might not think she’s forced you but do everything in her power to convince you. If you say you don’t want to go then how do they react?

There is no racism here.

I have a good friend who goes back to Pakistani all the time and what she tells me has caused me to think your situation is scary op.