To wonder why some people don't work full-time?

[donniedarko89]

I was part-time myself while DD was very young as I wanted to spend time with her. I know many mums however who have stayed part time even after the kids go to school. They only work 2 or 3 days a week. The thing is, they're not loaded, on the contrary they keep complaining that finances are tight and they can't afford stuff - then why not increase your work days (they could all easily do it)? Some of them even have a cleaner. No hobbies on the side either. It genuinely puzzles me!

this is hilarious. Do you actually know what you have written?! I am embarrassed for you!
but not so embarrassed you didn’t write it again for everyone else to see…..

Topgub
Great Post. Me and DP both work full time. It is totally to the detriment of our children. Mine are still young. Life is work and errands and chores and very little time together. We are all constantly stressed and feel harranged. My youngest child is very behind developmentally too.

For those who say we have fought hard to women to have careers, there is also the fact that many families are forced into full time work out of necessity. I never felt I had a choice to work part time. It's sad it has gone the other way. They need more people working to pay their taxes and prop up our failing financial system, so that won't change.

I'm glad I have a reasonable job, but all I really wanted was a couple of years working 20 hours a week for both kids when under 3. Instead I was condensing my hours into 14 hour shifts to save on childcare but was exhausted and not the best parent. My hours are better now, but I'm so focused in getting stuff done, I haven really enjoyed the early years. I'm wishing my kids to grow up quickly due to the stress. It's very sad. This is not having it all.

Topgub

"No one is saying there would be an equal split of men and women making the same choices.

But pretending we shouldn't even bother trying because men and women are different is bullshit."

This is a contradiction in terms. You acknowledge that all things being equal (equality of opportunity) men and women would still make different choices (outcomes).

But then you rail against people you perceive to be arguing women shouldn't even bother trying. So what DO you mean, specifically? Do you mean that any woman who has less than a full-time job is not "trying?" Do you mean any woman who works less than her husband is not "trying?"

If that is what you are arguing, then you are indeed trying to enforce equality of outcome. This is a very different matter to equality of opportunity and is, in my view, is very damaging.

@ChangeOver22 so children in wraparound care are mean / school bullies / miserable....because they're not meant to be outsourced?

Where do you stand on childminders?
What about grandparents?
What about SEN kids who have to go on a taxi and hour each way?
What about kids who go home alone from secondary school?
Holiday clubs?

I think you need to supply the research here if you're going to make big statements.

@ChangeOver22 ha! You're one of those women who's secretly gutted when the children of working mums grow up just as happy, clever and emotionally well adjusted as your own kids and their mums have successful careers and good pensions to boot!

Yeap, I'm sure it must make you a bit jealous but don't embarrass yourself by making it so obvious.

I think it's wrong to cast aspersions about other people's children. Can we please not do this? Most people who use long hours of childcare do so they have no other choice and it's disingenuous to dig the boot in to these mums (and dads) who are just doing their best.

@Eurydice84 that's really interesting you both have flexible jobs.

I think lots of us who work part time don't have.

I would never be able to collect from school or take them to the clubs if I worked full time. My days of work are around their activities so I can do the club runs without depending on others

I think if between you and your partner you can afford everything without state benefits then why not work part time and have a good work life balance.

Triggered much? It’s a deeply uncomfortable conversation no full time working parents want to have and they will justify to kingdom come about how well adjusted their kids are. But I’ve seen the truth. And the truth is those kids are miserable. We talk all about equality so let the mental health of the kids be damned as long as I am a totem for the feminist crusade, working full time, showing the patriarchy (never mind that my kids never see me).

and for the single parents who have no choice, I see you and respect you, and the ones who have no financial choice.

life can be tough and you don’t get a choice. But for those that do and continue putting career before kids. You are are the ones I’m looking at who keep outsourcing, knowing deep down it would be better for your kids to have you at home more but you just prefer your career. Be honest about it.

Why does it always have to be a competition between women on here? Why does it always have to be the right way or the wrong way?

Surely anyone can see that every family circumstance is different.

Some people HAVE to work full time
Some people WANT to work full time
Some people HAVE to work part time
Some people WANT to work part time
Some people earn different salaries
Each child is different
Every school/area has different childcare options/availability
Some people have more flexible jobs, some people have more family support

The idea that everything can always be 100% perfect and equal and fair and every person can have it all just because you want it to be true is laughable.

You'd have to be walking round with your eyes closed not to understand the reasons why families make the choices that they do.

Fortunately my happy, well adjusted adult children say otherwise. And frankly, that's all that counts

Because the nature of my job and my husbands job, coupled with lack of family support/ childcare and the fact that his earnings were much higher, meant that p/t was the only feasible option when the children were young.

I can’t increase my hours in my current job. There’s no budget to cover that. I could only realistically go f/t if I moved jobs, but would be unlikely to get another job at this level as I am in the highest band.

(That was in response to @ChangeOver22 obviously)

@ChangeOver22

There’s no need to answer your question because it’s set up on a false premise.

It was your question! If it's set up on a false premise that's your fault.

None of your weird arguments are relevant to me or really to the thread.

It is possible to work full time and love your children. And not outsource all or even any childcare. Not that there's anything wrong with childcare. It's a shame you've obviously had a bad experience

You appear to be arguing that its ok for 1 parent to work full time as long as 1 parent doesn't

I completely disagree with this and it completely undermines your argument. The fact you keep sidestepping the obvious hypocrisy shows that

But I’ve seen the truth. And the truth is those kids are miserable.

Several posters have asked for your evidence. Where is it?

Or is it just what you have concluded, quite disinterestedly and without any bias whatsoever?

@ChangeOver22

Hard to know where to start really with this diatribe.

But for those that do and continue putting career before kids. You are are the ones I’m looking at who keep outsourcing, knowing deep down it would be better for your kids to have you at home more but you just prefer your career. Be honest about it.

Does this apply to working men too? Or just working mothers? Is it OK for men to outsource to their wives and partners but not for women to use childcare? And if so, why?

I see you have magnanimously name checked the "single parents who have no choice" (phew). But do you genuinely not realise that the vast majority of women who work have to work?

Are you therefore suggesting that all women should cease to work and remain at home? and how would you propose families finance this?

What about women who want to work? I assume you'd like to return to a scenario such as pre-1970s Ireland, when women weren't allowed to have jobs after marriage. Is that what you'd be advocating.

You say you've "seen the truth". But what does this actually mean? I suspect you have some anecdata which you've picked up based on an n of one or two families where you know there is a working mother. That tells you nothing. To establish any meaningful correlation, let alone causation, between working parents and problematic behaviour, you would have to do a large-scale longitudinal study. Several of these have been done and none has established any compelling correlation between working mothers and behaviour difficulties or delinquency.

I’d also like to see the answer to Topgub’s question, at the end of her post, which you have been determinedly swerving.

Anecdotally most people I know who've managed to both work full time have either had a lot of help from extended family or have had jobs that work around one another.

That's not always possible and people don't always want to put children into full time childcare which could very often be from 7.30am-6.00pm. That's a hell of a long day for a primary school child to do Mom-Fri.

There are a lot of men in my sector who now work flexible/part time hours. There are a lot of dads I see on the school run. I'd say it's 50/50. I've found that I'm very unusual to n that I carry the full responsibility of school/childcare drops off and pick ups.

@Thepeopleversuswork

see you have magnanimously name checked the "single parents who have no choice"

Well, duh!

Those kids who are in childcare because their single parent has no choice are magically protected from ending up mean, miserable bullies with their mh in tatters

Its only children of mums who could be at home but choose not to that that happens to.

Quite how the mechanism works no one is sure

🤔

🤣

@Topgub

Those kids who are in childcare because their single parent has no choice are magically protected from ending up mean, miserable bullies with their mh in tatters

Yep. It's a bit like the magical "Rule of Six" where the COVID-19 virus knew not to infect people if they were only meeting five others but anything went if it was more.
😂

@ambermorning

I havent railed against anything

I think if we had equality things would be more equal. Weirdly enough.

Not exactly the same. With everyone making the same choices. That's nonsense to suggest anyone would think that

You'd obviously still get some women and some men desperately clinging on to the outdated gender stereotypes

But hopefully it would be a more equal split.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Exactly!

@Topgub it's hilarious isn't it?

I mean, if my dh had fucked off and I'd been a single mum outsourcing childcare, then @ChangeOver22 would graciously accept that my situation is ok, I'm doing well, and my children will be magically protected from becoming delinquents.

But because dh are happily married, we both have successful working lives and our children went to nursery, they're doomed to be miserable and mean!

Except our kids are adults now and they're not! They're happy, well adjusted and have great relationships.

The reality must so piss @ChangeOver22 off!