To think having more DC in todays climate is irresponsible?

[CPHB2021]

Friend and I chatting today about having children and adding to your family. Do you think that given the economic climate at present and a very unknown few years it's irresponsible to have a child/more children?
I am on the fence with this one as think, when is a good time, really? But she is very strongly on the NO ONE should be entering into parenthood or expanding their family unless literally millionaires. What do you think?

I think posts like this make those of us with young kids feel s**t tbh

I personally wouldn’t choose not to have a child if I was financially stable. I mean when is a good time? To have 3 or 4 children then yes definitely something to consider more carefully. Even if your household can afford them each child costs the state a lot in education, nhs etc.

Who is going to pay the taxes and provide the services when we are all elderly and frail?

It's a personal decision but if everyone thought like your friend it would be an absolute disaster.

I just think what a load of bollocks and that they’re obviously a fear mongering daily mail reader

And who do you think is going to pay tax in future to pay for your healthcare and state pension ?

Mine are little too, 2 and 5. Not planning to have any more but it certainly shocked me, her complete no nonsense approach to it.

Having child/rent is always a selfish decision no matter what year it is.

It would be a bit stupid to have no births for 2 years then (literally) massive bulge years for 2 years. How would maternity services cope, then preschools, then schools, then universities. Things would go bust in the 2 'lean' years and then have to go to double 'normal' capacity straight after.

I lived through the power cuts of the 70s, the miners strike, the massive mortgage rates, Black Friday. This too shall pass one way or another.

Probably.

A very valid point! One I had not considered. My view is that whilst I totally appreciate the instability of todays society, when is a truly good time? Obviously, not being able to provide housing, food, heat, some form of experience and opportunities would be a no no from me. But there's surely never a totally perfect time or financial position for most people!

Interesting. In what way? Environmentally?

Does she have kids?

Yes she has 2. The conversation sparked with people having a third. She feels that it's totally unnecessary and especially in todays situation.

You shouldn’t have kids if you can’t pay for them anyway

Economic climate? No, I wouldn't base my entire family setup on the current crop of MPs and their decisions.

Oh right.

Yeah I cant say I disagree with her tbh.

Environmentally none is best.

But obviously having kids is a biological urge most people can't control.

I dont see the need for more than 2 though.

I don't think there's ever been a good time to have a child. Yes things now are a massive shit show but that's a constant. However I do think the climate is going to affect the kids born today in more tangible ways than it has older generations.

We need some people to keep having kids to keep everything going. I'm currently pregnant, I have been a little worried with cost of living going up but I think we'll manage (both work, secure jobs, fairly average income). It will be our second and we don't plan to have more.

I think the vast majority of people have kids because they want to and couldn't care less about the environmental impact or economic climate. Your friend included. It's very convenient for her to feel this way when she has two kids that are already here, if she was childless and desperately wanted a baby, I doubt very much she'd give it a second thought.

So because she's got two, that's the stop point?

Bollocks to that!

During the two World wars, people continued to have babies, get married etc. I inagine the world looked pretty bleak then. Life goes on.

Imagine

Well not entirely her point. She has two but they are much older than mine. Out of primary school. She thinks that it's silly for anyone to have more unless they are literally rolling in money. And even silly to consider starting a family with the cost of living crisis etc. I see her point in ways but I also think, when is actually an ideal time to have baby no.3, for example... I don't think there is one for most average families and I think they just cope and get by, regardless of what shit storm the world is going through.

Locsup, the stark truth is that times and circumstances can be terrible, irrespective of how we prefer to feel about things.
I think this is particularly true with regards to concerns about the climate: the impact of manmade climate change and global heating are evidenced daily, we know that children born into western economies are forecast to significantly contribute to carbon emissions and resource extraction (much, much more so than children born in the global south). The outlook is bleak at best.
I would prefer not to feel shit about raising my youngish family. I stuck my head in the sand for years, being wilfully 'optimistic'. Now, having put my grown-up pants on and educated myself about what likely lies ahead in terms of the climate, the distribution of global resources and the impact on the global markets and economy, I understand how two apparently contrasting truths can be simultaneously true. One can have a burning desire to add to one's family. The world is facing unprecedented climatic challenges in the coming decades, coinciding with many of our children's first 20-30 years of life, years which will likely look at lot different to our own first decades. It definitely makes me feel shit. But it would be unwise to suggest that others ought not raise these kinds of difficult topic, or shut down discussion by accusing them of being fear-mongering Daily Mail readers, as another PP did.

It was probably worse when we had the black death and all that. Or Spanish flu, or Napoleonic wars. Or even at the peak of total war during WWII. Just as well people did have kids though regardless eh OP. Otherwise you might not be here.

There is never a good time.