To think having more DC in todays climate is irresponsible?

[CPHB2021]

Friend and I chatting today about having children and adding to your family. Do you think that given the economic climate at present and a very unknown few years it's irresponsible to have a child/more children?
I am on the fence with this one as think, when is a good time, really? But she is very strongly on the NO ONE should be entering into parenthood or expanding their family unless literally millionaires. What do you think?

If you’re going to criticise people wanting to have children now, may as well extend that to everyone in history who’s had children. Nothing is ever promised and there are no guarantees in this life.

When you had your children there will have been a million reasons not to, you just made your decision based off your individual hopes and dreams, as we should all be allowed to.

I don't think people with kids should comment how it's irresponsible for those without kids to do just what they did and have kids.

What were all meant to choose to age without children, miss out on family life and school years and babies and grandkids even though we want those things... because the economy isn't doing well?

Bonkers. Make your own decisions and let others make theirs.

Her view is the furthest thing from "no-nonsense". It's full-fat, 100% organic, two-for-the-price-of-one nonsense. She should be hlad her ancestors didn't say the same during the Black Death (or any of the other much more arduous and dangerous times human beings have lived through).

People kept on having children in far worse times than at the moment. Your friend is being ridiculous.

Is the OP's friend saying prospective new parents literally have to be millionaires, though? I'm reading it as a metaphor for 'well enough off to expect to be insulated enough against imminent financial challenges'. Anyone else?
My DC are growing up with less than most of their friends. That's hard. They have what they need and we go without. That's fine. We wouldn't have another. Although OP's friend's 'gold standard' for an ideal set of circumstances are wildly different from my own, I don't write them off. Life is undeniably easier with resources and offers more choice and opportunity. A life with an abundance of ease, choice and opportunity is something positive to wish for one's child. There's no getting away from that.

Rockbird, I am curious about how you can say, in one instance "...there really is nothing left in life" and in the next breath make a statement which, in the context, can be read as encouraging prospective family-augmenters to throw caution to the wind and put new babies in the very circumstances which you yourself find so bleak.

Didn't we have one of those threads just yesterday...?

Your friend, and everyone else who had their own children but criticize others for having theirs, can sod right off. I would also be interested to know what years she had her children in, so I can point out all the reasons that was a stupid and irresponsible time to have a child.

I have a 14 year old. Who the hell am I or anyone privileged enough to have older children to tell other people they shouldn't have kids?

My grandparents were born during WW2, was it rresponsible of my ggps to have had children then?

I only had two children because I really could not afford ant more. But that was over thirty years ago. Also at one point our mortgage rate was at 15% in the 1980,s the government really did not give any bailout measures you were on your own. Only money we got from the government was family allowance. I remember quite a few people just gave there keys back to the banks.

Using her logic billions of people worldwide should ever have kids.

Ridiculous

🥱

Absolutely fine to choose not to have children IF you are prepared not to rely on other peoples children in old age.

Why did she have the first 2?

Also, being a millionaire doesn't protect your offspring from climate change.

I think this only applies where they’re not happy their taxes go towards schools and children’s hospitals etc ‘cos why should I pay for other people’s kids’

i pay taxes AND raise the next generation.

You think having children is a civic duty?

I’ve been on and off it for a few years due to a condition that comes and goes. I spoke to the doctor about it as I was worried about becoming addicted as at times I took it for a few months. She said as long as I was taking it only when I was in pain I should be okay, it’s if I started taking it for the sake of it. I only ever took the minimum I needed and certainly never more than 8 in 24hrs. I’ve just been able to stop taking it when I’m not in pain and not had any problems.

Sorry wrong thread.

Please don't say this. I am 30 and we were TTC on Sunday but I chickened out and ran out to get the morning after. My instinct is to wait and see what happens to mortgage rates in 2024 (when our deal is expiring) and it would be easier to upsize our 2 bed flat (spare room has my pet gerbils but DH says baby would be in with us for a year anyway) when house prices are falling... Either way, it would be easier without a baby and surplus money.

But i would be 32 in 2024 and i can feel my biological clock ticking. we used the withdrawal method for 8 years and though mumsnetters tell me not to worry, i am still worried.

@Nanalisa60 Also at one point our mortgage rate was at 15% in the 1980,s the government really did not give any bailout measures you were on your own. Only money we got from the government was family allowance.

Except the fact that your mortgage interest was tax deductible.

I'm always bemused at the idea that some people apparently plan their family around the 'good of the planet'. Or the common people. Or whatever shit they've convinced themselves of.

I cannot imagine why you would not simply have the number of children that you and your DH would ideally like. And can afford. And think you can cope with.
Whether that is 1, 2 or more. I suspect those piously restricting themselves
to a certain number have chosen the number of children THEY wanted. But are announcing that they've done it for some altruistic reason.

Interestingly your batshit friend is announcing that it's irresponsible in this economic climate to have a child (once she's already had the two she wanted).

I think no one, even millionaires, should have more than 2 children. The world is overpopulated and keep adding, adding, adding, adding to the problem is ridiculous.

@MadMadMadamMim some of us do actually think about the state of the planet and what the future holds when deciding whether to have children or how many. Not sure why you find the idea so strange. Maybe because so many don't even seem to discuss it at all and, of course, add all the "accidental pregnancies".

@Cuppasoupmonster You think having children is a civic duty? No, I think people who don’t have children “for the greater good” aren’t particularly admirable as they are happy to rely on other peoples children while opting out of family.

5Zeds Society needs both of course, people who have children and people who don't.
I don't understand why people get so het up about feeling preached at or offended at the perception that someone is telling them what to do. What's the point?
It is true that times are hard and look set to remain so for the foreseeable.
It is true that times are unpredictable and precarious.
It is true that the climate emergency is serving us all up some severe challenges on a global scale, and that, in the near future, our lives in the UK look set to be impacted by changes in the global climate in ways that are unpleasant to imagine.
What is the point in downplaying these things?
Better to make our decisions about procreation fully informed and facing the truth and consequences of our decisions head on.

Is she a millionaire by any chance