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Original poster

Shall I just go to A&E…

201 replies

Igo · 10/10/2022 17:21

I have been having upper right abdomen pain since Saturday (currently a full ache) temp around 40.4 comes down to 39.2 with some tablets, I feel sick and woozy had horrific bowel movement

pain come and goes in waves when it’s bad I can’t move, hurts to breathe, can’t stomach food cause immense pain…been taking tramadol and it’s not touching it!

pain got really really bad yesterday each wave lasted around 2 hours, dh phoned 111…after 9 hours they still hadn’t called back, phoned again at 6…was phoned back at 10pm asking me to go to urgent care for an appointment at 10.30pm which was impossible as I live an hour away…they then told me they had no other appointments and was told to call my Gp or go to a&e if it got worse

doped up on tramadol again and got about 4 hours sleep

attempted to contact my Gp 33 times…finally spoke to a receptionist and all she would offer me was an appointment in 7-10 days

phoned 111 to be told to contact my Gp as they were open

literally it’s my last resort do I just turn up? Pain has been ramping up again for the last 15 mins I can’t keep shoving tramadol down my throat but I don’t want to be sat in a&e in agony while nothing happens and I’m left in a chair like last time

OP posts:
TheWolves · 11/10/2022 17:57

SleepyRich · 11/10/2022 16:59

Lol, I've never seen anyone bring a chair before that would be a new one!

Whilst waiting 6hours in A&E without a chair obviously isn't a laughing matter, having worked around A&E departments for several years a very high percentage of those patients almost certainly wont have needed to be there in the first place and just delay the emergencies from being identified. The number of people attending A&Es who are ultimately discharged without requiring any specialist tests or treatment is staggering. I say this because increasing the size of the waiting room isn't necessarily the answer (unless you are also increasing the number of staff and size of the department itself really).

I'm glad the OP has gone to A&E, from the brief description sounds like a possible cholecystitis (acute gall bladder infection/inflammation) which is a surgical emergency hence being admitted onto SAC.

Whilst I know at lot of people who know they're attending with a non-emergency will defend doing so as they feel they couldn't get a GP appointment this isn't helping. They often have the time to provide any treatment for the non-emergency. For example people often attend with back pain - To simplify it effectively in A&E they will consider whether there's any indication for caudia equina syndrome (a type of nerve compression), or whether the back pain could really be a heart problem etc, which if it's been going on for x weeks probably isn't. So knowing it's not an emergency will tell you to see GP to make sure it's not a cancer, or whether you need physio etc. Which is probably what you already knew and still need to make an appointment with the GP!

I work in primary care as well now, often seeing people in the urgent clinics for 6 month history of knee pain 4th presentation "I've had all the tests and they keep telling me I need to have physio and loose weight for it to improve, I don't want to do this and my knee still hurts when I walk...", "I've had a cough a sore throat for a few days can you check me out"...These fill about half the day and have all insisted to the receptionist that they absolutely must be seen that day.

Don't get me wrong, they're easy consults just takes a couple of mins to check for appropriate red flags in a low risk patient but the frustration is that these appointments could have gone to the patient worried about their unexplained weight loss, the recurrent headache, the new mole or lump that's been bothering them, the ?chest infection but coughed up a little blood, the feverish child that just doesn't seem quite right.

Show quote history

It's my experience that the doctors and nurses blame the patients for coming to A&E in the first place. The contempt patients are treated with these days is just astonishing.

And yes, I'll be bringing my own chair (and possibly even a sleeping bag) the next time I inevitably end up in A&E because the NHS won't take any preventative tactics like treating or investigating what's wrong with me.

It's hardly surprising that A&E is a mess considering how challenging it is to see a GP and that it's almost impossible to see a specialist.

WafflesOrIceCream · 11/10/2022 18:16

OP I hope you get seen to quickly.Keep us updated.

MrsTeaShore · 11/10/2022 18:16

Glad you have been seen to. I agree that gallbladder pain is a 10 and I felt like I was actually going to die when I had gallstones, the pain was so bad. For me it was worse than childbirth because you at least know the reason and the baby eventually comes out ! With gallstones you can’t escape the pain ! I had a big stone and a few smaller ones , Had my gallbladder taken out approx 6 months after my worst pain . Keep chasing the appointment OP, I kept slipping off waiting lists and getting passed from one hospital list to another .so it it worth finding out whose waiting list you’re on, at which hospital etc and keep chasing.

longtompot · 11/10/2022 18:17

@Emotionalsupportviper This is what our practise used to do, open surgery where you turned up, signed in and sat and waited your turn. It always made me so anxious as I'd worry Id miss my slot, or someone would push in, or worse still I'D be the one to push in! But, it was a way to get seen quickly for an ailment

Cats4life · 11/10/2022 18:37

Heya so I eventually paid for my galbladder to be removed privately it was around 6 grand- if you continue to have attacks I would look into this.

I joined a few fb support groups who really helped with advice to prevent attacks and to help with the pain during attacks but I was still having them at least once a week and could barely eat anything without having an attack but the wait list where I live was years, some people saying over 5 years and I knew I couldnt live like that

My advice is join some of the fb groups they are amazing and if you keep having attacks (cause it's very rarely a one time deal) look into private surgery

Kentgirl2525 · 11/10/2022 18:44

Kendodd · 10/10/2022 21:21

God, this is awful. How have we (all of us) just allowed our health service to fall into such a state? It isn't like this in other countries. In other countries, people get sick, they see a doctor. None of this scrambling around, trying to find ANYONE who might help them. I have a Ukrainian staying with me, they have none of this in Ukraine despite being the poorest country in Europe. And you can see a dentist whenever you need to.

Oh, and the government have just cut medical school placements this year by 25%. Shame on us.

I hope you get sorted OP.

I know it’s just so worrying!
you can’t mess around with health it’s the single most important thing.
really hope the op is ok, let us know how it goes if you can! Wishing you luck ❤️

lljkk · 11/10/2022 19:16

OP: did you know you had gall bladder stones before, is this sudden development I mean? I hope the antiBs kick in very fast.

kateandme · 11/10/2022 19:31

Not to be nosy to the op but in general interest ,could someone with knowledge give me more info on gallbladder and onto why it’s removed here?

kateandme · 11/10/2022 19:33

Kentgirl2525 · 11/10/2022 18:44

I know it’s just so worrying!
you can’t mess around with health it’s the single most important thing.
really hope the op is ok, let us know how it goes if you can! Wishing you luck ❤️

Show quote history

We were thinking about this the other day when my mum fell down the stairs onto her head.why are we even questioning whether they are too busy and snowed under at a n e!? Why was it a 16 hour wait.or why there won’t be enough help or then ongoing support offered.

kateandme · 11/10/2022 19:35

Anti bods should kick in after 24 to 48 op.keep going.we were also adviced on that first painkiller dose to take both together for the initial hit before you start spacing them.it really did help.

SleepyRich · 11/10/2022 23:51

TheWolves · 11/10/2022 17:57

It's my experience that the doctors and nurses blame the patients for coming to A&E in the first place. The contempt patients are treated with these days is just astonishing.

And yes, I'll be bringing my own chair (and possibly even a sleeping bag) the next time I inevitably end up in A&E because the NHS won't take any preventative tactics like treating or investigating what's wrong with me.

It's hardly surprising that A&E is a mess considering how challenging it is to see a GP and that it's almost impossible to see a specialist.

Show quote history

There's a range of emotions felt but I've not seen contempt amongst people I work with. Remember we're members of the public to, if I need to see my GP I phone the same number as everyone else in my community and make the same request. If I fall and break my leg I'll be going to the same A&E. It's not us and them.

The NHS is absolutely overwhelmed with demand, I don't see how it will never meet the expectations place upon it at present, plus it's likely demand will continue to increase yet staffing numbers are at risk of falling - many more moving abroad/not migrating here in the first place..

The costs that would be required to meet expectations, in addition to finding and maintaining adequate staffing levels is just never going to be realised.

So either 1) we need a massive education drive to reduce the number of people inappropriately accessing various services - i.e. GPs appointments aren't taken up by people wanting reassurance re minor illness, or for chronic pains that ultimately will only improve with major lifestyle changes - if this happens appointments become available for people who need GP led management or referral, they can access it and not turn to A&E in desperation as you say (which is then inevitably overwhelmed, delaying the people whom did actually need the emergency service in the first place). This will only occur with a significant education drive and not a case of a simple advert on telly on in the paper.

In addition the wards themselves are full of increasingly elderly vulnerable patients whom can't be discharged home because they're not able to cope living alone, there's insufficient bedspace in care homes and our families are fragmented, not living close enough to provide that daily support + all having to work full time themselves to manage so no time even if they were local and willing.

The other option 2) is charging at the point of access, which will inevitably reduce demand. I think we can all guess which way is more likely.

i.e. painful throat wonder if I need antibiotics - 1) with education more people will be confident in the knowledge that antibiotics will only reduce the length of infection by about 12 hours on average and not worth the side effects or resistance, i;ll review the NHS guidance to see if I[ve got any concerning features that suggest I should see the GP. 2) It'll cost me £50 to find out if I can get some antibiotics - I can't afford that, I'll just have to wait and hope it gets better.

It's happening already, plenty oon this very forum talk about paying to skip the queue for surgery/cancer diagnosis and treatment. Healthcare inequality is miserable.

SharpLily · 12/10/2022 08:34

SleepyRich · 11/10/2022 23:51

There's a range of emotions felt but I've not seen contempt amongst people I work with. Remember we're members of the public to, if I need to see my GP I phone the same number as everyone else in my community and make the same request. If I fall and break my leg I'll be going to the same A&E. It's not us and them.

The NHS is absolutely overwhelmed with demand, I don't see how it will never meet the expectations place upon it at present, plus it's likely demand will continue to increase yet staffing numbers are at risk of falling - many more moving abroad/not migrating here in the first place..

The costs that would be required to meet expectations, in addition to finding and maintaining adequate staffing levels is just never going to be realised.

So either 1) we need a massive education drive to reduce the number of people inappropriately accessing various services - i.e. GPs appointments aren't taken up by people wanting reassurance re minor illness, or for chronic pains that ultimately will only improve with major lifestyle changes - if this happens appointments become available for people who need GP led management or referral, they can access it and not turn to A&E in desperation as you say (which is then inevitably overwhelmed, delaying the people whom did actually need the emergency service in the first place). This will only occur with a significant education drive and not a case of a simple advert on telly on in the paper.

In addition the wards themselves are full of increasingly elderly vulnerable patients whom can't be discharged home because they're not able to cope living alone, there's insufficient bedspace in care homes and our families are fragmented, not living close enough to provide that daily support + all having to work full time themselves to manage so no time even if they were local and willing.

The other option 2) is charging at the point of access, which will inevitably reduce demand. I think we can all guess which way is more likely.

i.e. painful throat wonder if I need antibiotics - 1) with education more people will be confident in the knowledge that antibiotics will only reduce the length of infection by about 12 hours on average and not worth the side effects or resistance, i;ll review the NHS guidance to see if I[ve got any concerning features that suggest I should see the GP. 2) It'll cost me £50 to find out if I can get some antibiotics - I can't afford that, I'll just have to wait and hope it gets better.

It's happening already, plenty oon this very forum talk about paying to skip the queue for surgery/cancer diagnosis and treatment. Healthcare inequality is miserable.

Show quote history

No, I'm sorry but none of this works. The system is broken. Stop blaming people going to A&E - do you think they would undertake such a miserable experience if they had any other option? If people could see a GP, they would. In large parts of the country it's just not that easy.

And I am one of those who doesn't want to bother the GP with what you consider to be minor ailments which will usually resolve themselves with time and suffering, so I don't go unless I feel I'm about to die and the result is that I nearly have, more than once. Leaving my 'painful throat' and other symptoms has seen me end up variously with pneumonia and meningitis. So that I could avoid bothering my GP with my 'minor ailments'. Now if I want to see the service for which I pay with my taxes for what may or may not be a minor problem, I fucking will.

fashionqueen1183 · 12/10/2022 09:09

SleepyRich · 11/10/2022 16:59

Lol, I've never seen anyone bring a chair before that would be a new one!

Whilst waiting 6hours in A&E without a chair obviously isn't a laughing matter, having worked around A&E departments for several years a very high percentage of those patients almost certainly wont have needed to be there in the first place and just delay the emergencies from being identified. The number of people attending A&Es who are ultimately discharged without requiring any specialist tests or treatment is staggering. I say this because increasing the size of the waiting room isn't necessarily the answer (unless you are also increasing the number of staff and size of the department itself really).

I'm glad the OP has gone to A&E, from the brief description sounds like a possible cholecystitis (acute gall bladder infection/inflammation) which is a surgical emergency hence being admitted onto SAC.

Whilst I know at lot of people who know they're attending with a non-emergency will defend doing so as they feel they couldn't get a GP appointment this isn't helping. They often have the time to provide any treatment for the non-emergency. For example people often attend with back pain - To simplify it effectively in A&E they will consider whether there's any indication for caudia equina syndrome (a type of nerve compression), or whether the back pain could really be a heart problem etc, which if it's been going on for x weeks probably isn't. So knowing it's not an emergency will tell you to see GP to make sure it's not a cancer, or whether you need physio etc. Which is probably what you already knew and still need to make an appointment with the GP!

I work in primary care as well now, often seeing people in the urgent clinics for 6 month history of knee pain 4th presentation "I've had all the tests and they keep telling me I need to have physio and loose weight for it to improve, I don't want to do this and my knee still hurts when I walk...", "I've had a cough a sore throat for a few days can you check me out"...These fill about half the day and have all insisted to the receptionist that they absolutely must be seen that day.

Don't get me wrong, they're easy consults just takes a couple of mins to check for appropriate red flags in a low risk patient but the frustration is that these appointments could have gone to the patient worried about their unexplained weight loss, the recurrent headache, the new mole or lump that's been bothering them, the ?chest infection but coughed up a little blood, the feverish child that just doesn't seem quite right.

Show quote history

I can’t believe people are going to a&e for stuff like that or seeing a GP for a sore throat! Or yeah knee pain if they’ve been told to loose weight and do physio what else are they hoping to be told by coming in if they refuse to do that (not sure why they would!)?? It’s sad if those people are then causing issues for people needing actual treatment.

Signeduptosimplyreplytothis · 12/10/2022 09:21

kateandme · 11/10/2022 19:31

Not to be nosy to the op but in general interest ,could someone with knowledge give me more info on gallbladder and onto why it’s removed here?

We can live without it. Once you start making stones it just becomes a vessel for pain and discomfort and can also be a real risk to life if you get a severe infection or pancreatitis.

Kendodd · 12/10/2022 09:25

fashionqueen1183 · 12/10/2022 09:09

I can’t believe people are going to a&e for stuff like that or seeing a GP for a sore throat! Or yeah knee pain if they’ve been told to loose weight and do physio what else are they hoping to be told by coming in if they refuse to do that (not sure why they would!)?? It’s sad if those people are then causing issues for people needing actual treatment.

Show quote history

Isn't people NOT seeking medical attention when they should more of a problem in the UK? Hence our poor cancer survival compared to our neighbours?
Its absolutely drummed into us in the UK, do not go to the doctor unless you are at deaths door. Other countries don't have this. If you're sick, you see a doctor, how is that in any way an unreasonable expectation in a supposedly first world country?

Starlight86 · 12/10/2022 09:39

I truly do not believe that the "majority" of people sit in A&E for X amount of hours are time wasters!!

These people are scared, worried, in pain, have nowhere else to turn to, the system is broken and not by the general public, or the doctors/nurses for that matter.

The government has created a catastrophic situation.

antelopevalley · 12/10/2022 10:21

You do get people going for minor things that they could self-treat.
But you also get people not going when they should. I know a few people only diagnosed when cancer was advanced as they did not want to bother the Dr with minor issues.

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 10:23

Stop blaming people going to A&E - do you think they would undertake such a miserable experience if they had any other option?

You'd be surprised @SharpLily . Before lockdown I've seen entire families sitting in A&E (and taking up seats needed by people who could barely stand!) because one of them got a cut finger 3 days ago that they've only just decided to do something about - and by cut finger, I don't mean a gash, I mean something that most of us would stick a plater over to keep it clean and let it get on with healing.

I imagine that these have drifted away due to restrictions, but they'll be back, no doubt. Some people will never take responsibility for their own health, and have no consideration for others. I've seen such a family kick off and get very aggressive because while they were waiting a child who had had a serious accident was treated before their *rsehle relative who had some minor injury. They became abusive and aggressive because "they were here first'. The kiddie had pulled a display unit over onto themselves and had glass embedded in their face, head and chest - of course they were sent through first!

99% of the people in that waiting room could accept this, but these particular idiots couldn't.

randomsabreuse · 12/10/2022 10:38

I recently spent a long time in A&E with my 3 year old with a broken finger. (Yes it was both obviously broken (funny angle) and visible fracture on x-ray). Waited about 5 hours in children's A&E along with a fair few other similar cases (hands, wrists, ankles). We all got processed in a batch at around 3am... When there were no more ill children needing treatment...

Where else should you go with a fracture that is not instantly life or limb threatening but can't be dealt with elsewhere. Clinically ine to be at the back of the queue because not super urgent but equally

I'm not convinced that sending young (small) children to minor injuries is any more effective because minor injuries don't have the storage space to have all the sizes of braces - DD's fractured ankle took 3 visits to get comfortable because the minor injuries unit didn't have any paediatric boots on day 1, then had the wrong size delivered on day 2 so eventually we gave up and went to A&E at the children's hospital where correct size boot was easily located and fitted correctly. It wasn't even that busy, 111 wanted us to go back to Minor Injuries for a third time.

I'd probably move the minor injuries cut off to around 10 (or cut off my height, weight, shoesize) as most are coming into the range of adult heights and shoe sizes, meaning that they only need to stock adult sizes plus the biggest child size rather than all the children's sizes. Also fitting to children is more difficult.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate the staff are skilled, but they're not as good as paediatric specialists at getting compliance from children who are in pain as someone who spends their entire time doing just that. The paediatric x-ray specialists are basically magicians!

TheWolves · 12/10/2022 17:53

Starlight86 · 12/10/2022 09:39

I truly do not believe that the "majority" of people sit in A&E for X amount of hours are time wasters!!

These people are scared, worried, in pain, have nowhere else to turn to, the system is broken and not by the general public, or the doctors/nurses for that matter.

The government has created a catastrophic situation.

I don't believe it either.

It's absolutely hellish in A&E.

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 19:37

@TheWolves

I can honestly say that I've never had anything but compassion and excellent care in A&E, and from my GP and specialists I've been sent to.

I'm sure they get annoyed or frustrated at times, but they don't show it.

TheWolves · 12/10/2022 19:42

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 19:37

@TheWolves

I can honestly say that I've never had anything but compassion and excellent care in A&E, and from my GP and specialists I've been sent to.

I'm sure they get annoyed or frustrated at times, but they don't show it.

That just means it hasn't happened to you.

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 19:51

Point taken @TheWolves

Reading this thread it does seem that we are particularly fortunate where I am.

AgathaMystery · 12/10/2022 20:11

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 19:37

@TheWolves

I can honestly say that I've never had anything but compassion and excellent care in A&E, and from my GP and specialists I've been sent to.

I'm sure they get annoyed or frustrated at times, but they don't show it.

I’ve experienced the full spectrum - & I work there!

I’ve seen neglect that almost cost my young husband his life, & I’ve had colleagues literally save mine.

it’s the luck of the draw. And that’s what’s terrifying.

TheWolves · 12/10/2022 20:13

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 19:51

Point taken @TheWolves

Reading this thread it does seem that we are particularly fortunate where I am.

Yeah it's obviously a lottery. I live near the A&E where a man died in the waiting room. It's genuinely horrendous in there.

I can't go in without having a panic attack now.

I must say that there are plenty of lovely staff working in that hospital. It's just the bad ones stick out because someone being horrible to you at your most vulnerable is so traumatic.