To let my 11yo sit in the front seat on a long motorway journey?

[Amarette]

I have to take my DD on a long motorway journey this weekend. I have a one-year old car with excellent safety ratings for the passenger seat, with air bags etc. In fact, the safety ratings look like its safer to be in the front than the back, although they only seem to have tested child's car seats in the back so it's hard to compare.

Anyway, my friend said that she would never let her DC travel in the front seat on the motorway as its always safer for them to be in the back. Starting to question myself now as would never forgive myself if something happened to her and I had made a decision that contributed to it.

Curious what other people think? She is tall for an 11yo and an athlete so not a delicate child!

My two year old rides shotgun. 🤷‍♀️

It's one journey- the risks on a motorway are small! My kids have tunred and about, youngest a a baby was travel sick, so forward facing as soon as possible and then in front seat taking older brother to school every day.

Now I am in the back and 6ft 2 18y ds is in the front (he is a rubbish co-pilot though).

It is not all about safety otherwise we would never go anywhere unneccessary - sometimes it is about companionship on a journey - and that may be worth a small risk. The bonding time may be valuable in it's own right!

I'm 5'2". I couldn't reach the pedals of dh's old car. Should I sit in the back?

you’re an adult. You can make your own risk assessment and sit where you like.

children aren’t capable of assessing their own risks in the same way, which is why parents are able to make decisions for them.

The UK law states that children from birth to 12 years old and at least 135cm tall need to be in an appropriate child restraint when travelling by car at all times, whether this is in the front or back of the car.

😂

My 11 week olds in the front seat. It’s a van. Totally normal

If I'm reading correctly, they aren't using any kind of car seat / booster? If that's correct, that's really negligent.

At that age a high-backed booster with restraint is still required. Hopefully that's what you do & it just wasn't clear in your post

Right? My car is a sports/super fast thing and only has two seats. I couldn’t put him in the boot. It’s in the front anyway.

My ds has sat in the front since he was about 8yo in a HBB and remained in the front since.

He's 18 now!

There's only ever been us two and I liked him in front with me and he preferred it 🤷‍♀️

No booster as she is too tall for one. As I understand it the rule is either 135cm OR 12yo, whichever is earlier. She is at least 150cm and the size of a 12/13yo.

My 11 yo sits up front as standard unless she has a friend in the car in which case the 7 yo gets a turn. Never really gave it much thought.

I think in some countries (France possibly) it is illegal under the age of 12 so maybe that poster isn't from the UK?

I think the PP was talking about the 4yo who sits in the front. Probably they are sitting on a booster seat, which is perfectly legal.

Yes I think it's illegal to put children in the front in some countries, but it's not illegal in the UK.

"Bracing" definitely a myth but that screenshot somebody sent mentioning bracing didn't look like it came from a reputable site so I would ignore it. The reason they generally say airbags are dangerous for kids under 12 is the same as why we say you need to use booster seats for kids under 12 - it's to do with height and at 150cm this child wouldn't need a booster seat anywhere in the world. Seatbelts are designed for people 150cm+ (which does indeed pose a problem for women who are shorter. If you're shorter, wear a seatbelt anyway. It will still do something.) Nothing magical is going to happen on the eve of her 12th birthday that makes her better at withstanding airbags. It's just an easier message to say "over 12 vs under 12" - rather than complicating it with things like if your child is 150cm or not. There is going to be higher risk for younger children and lower risk for older ones on a sliding scale. There's really not that much difference between an 11yo and 13yo for example, but an 8yo would be at more risk and a 6yo even more so. But age is an easy metric - you don't always know your child's exact height or weight but you tend to know their age in years.

The middle seat thing is out of date, it used to be the case that the middle seat was safest because side impact protection in cars has only been a thing for approx the last 25 years, so 10-15 years ago anyone driving a car older than about 10 years was at high risk from side impact crashes and the middle seat is the furthest point from that type of crash. Nowadays that is less relevant because cars have side impact protection built in so the sides are less risky, and very few people are driving around in 20+ year old cars. If you're linking/reading studies and they are based on crashes that occurred in the 90s, bear this in mind too. Modern cars have completely unrecognisable safety features compared with cars from the 80s and 90s. It might be that the back seat/front seat

I don't know if you can extrapolate NCAP data because they don't put adult dummies in the back and test them so they aren't judging by the same criteria and the score may reflect that. For instance they get marked down for not having a built in booster seat in the back even though a separate high backed booster gives better crash protection in lab tests. But certainly several experts in Sweden seem to think the front seat is safe (note here they are talking about deactivated airbags because they are discussing use with rear facing child seats and not adult sized children) www.carseat.se/rearfacing/position-in-vehicle/front-seat-safety/
And if your car has a good NCAP rating for front seat occupants, it's not a bad place to put an adult-sized person.

I’m also interested in the answer to the airbag question. My 8yo quite often goes in the front but I haven’t been turning off the airbag, now wondering if I should?

Check the car's manual. For forward facing children in car seats you will have an instruction in there. Some cars say not at all, some cars say airbag on, some say airbag off. All say seat back as far as it can go, I believe. If your 8yo is not on a booster seat you'd be best off using at least a backless booster if not a full high back until 150cm or until the belt fits over the hips when he's bending his knees over the seat edge - for most 8yos, bending their knees over the seat edge (as is comfortable) tends to bring their bum and hips forward, which puts the lap belt higher over their tummy.

One issue that hasn't been mentioned in the thread is the smartphone problem - recently more head injuries seen in children who pre-crash were positioned bent over looking at a smartphone. When they're in this position they are at risk from the airbag as their head is more in the place that it's likely to explode. But if you want her in the front so you can chat, then this is less likely.

Sorry OP, I bet you wish you'd never asked

@BertieBotts thank you so much for your wise and informative post. Everything you say makes complete sense and is really reassuring, thanks. I will tell DD about the smartphone thing too!

Make sure they're on a booster seat if they're not yet 135cms, and turn off the air bag for that seat, and push the seat back as far as possible.

Sorry I left a sentence half finished

*It might be that the back seat/front seat thing is out of date too but to be honest I don't really know.

My just turned 12 tray old always sits in the front. I have 3 children and my car won't fit them all across the back seats, so my eldest always sits in the front whatever route of journey. He is legally tall enough not to use a booster but he does still use a backless booster as otherwise the seatbelt doesn't seem to sit in the right place on him and he slouches in the seat too much without it.

Bertie has probably mentioned all you need to consider really. Although I've told my kids never to put their feet up on the dash on long journeys. I see it from time to time and whilst tempting, the airbag could put you in an uncompromising position

Anyway, in all seriousness, the C-HR is a great car. My eldest has one and it's fine front or back. At 11 and 150cm, I certainly wouldn't stick her in the back. She'll be fine. IMO the brace thing is nonsense. Crash test dummies don't brace and neither does everyone in a crash, simply because you're not always aware of a crash happening. There's also theory that bracing is worse for injury and the ideal is to yield. Most of us don't have the luxury of deciding.

Going back to a pp, cars are mostly designed for men so many women are at a disadvantage. Sorry about that but it is changing. However, despite this cars are safer than ever and motorway driving safer than all other roads.

Hope you have a safe journey and most importantly enjoy it. Try not to think about this thread!

If you have an accident depending upon the circumstances you have no way of knowing which seat would be best. If you rear ended someone at speed the front seat would have been a bad idea but conversely if you’re queuing and a hgv crashes into the back of you then the front seat would probably be safer. As long as you’re using the correct booster (if she’s under 135cm) it doesn’t really matter where she sits especially if the trip passes, as I’m sure it will, without any incidents.

I saw a friend recently who has bought an Audi TT. For those that don't know, that's a small three door car with literally no leg room for anybody sitting in the back unless it's a baby

The back of the front seat practically makes contact with the rear bench so no leg room in the back

I was told that their six year old DD sits in the front seat when she goes in the car with her dad. I've always wondered about whether this was legal, I'm pretty sure they said there's ISOFIX on the front passenger seat

My 7 and 9yo regularly sit at the front. 9yono longer needs a booster and does seem really small sat in the front so i avoid on long journeys but sometimes needs must and it massively helps with car sickness as now he's not in a booster he struggles in the back.

Just spotted this. As a 150cm driver I agree she's fine!

In other news, it's also much safer never to cross a road than to cross one. Have you ever seen someone who's been flattened by a bus?

12 year old DS has insisted on sitting in the front seat for several years, to get away from his brother 😆. It does alleviate the risk of me having to turn around and bellow "STOP BLOODY ARGUING!" on a regular basis, which is a highly distracting manoeuvre (any stats on that? 😬)

It's probably actually safer in that case if the front seats almost make contact with the back. You need 55cm distance from the crease of the back seat to the back of the front seat for any child seat to be considered safe, because they allow for 55cm movement tolerance. 50cm if it's a new regulation one. 55cm is usually about the depth of the seat, so if the front seat hovers over the back seat then it's usually too small. Anything within that 55cm space is a hazard for a child to hit their head (e.g. tablet holders that stick out backwards are a safety problem). I don't really know how the car manufacturers get away with it, because those back seats are essentially unsafe to use any child seat on (and I can't imagine that an adult passenger would move any less than 55cm in a crash either!)

I’ve literally never given this a thought. As soon my DC were tall enough to use the seatbelt they could sit in the front and we’d chat about all sorts. Had some of our best conversations in the car.