AIBU to think MN enables obsessive hygiene

[Cheeselog]

And wonder what we can do to stop it?

When I was a teenager and suffering from an eating disorder I sought out ‘pro-ana’ material on Tumblr, which has rightfully been banned on many sites as it essentially encourages people to give in to their disorder instead of challenging it.

I can’t help but feel the regular threads where people declare if you don’t wash your hands/ shower/ change your sheets/ change your clothes/ deep clean your toilet every 15 minutes or whatever then you are GRIM are the equivalent for people with hygiene-focused OCD (and other threads do the same for health anxiety) - these threads validate and normalise obsessive behaviours.

IMO this content is just as bad for individuals as my pro-ED content was. How can we stop this and make MN a safer environment for people who are suffering from or susceptible to these illnesses?

I’m surprised that so many posters don’t recognise this phenomenon. I’ve no problem with people factually stating how often they wash their towels or whatever, but there are ALWAYS posters on these threads who make judgements. I’ve seen people argue that two showers a day is ‘basic hygiene’ and that not wearing a fresh pair of pyjamas every day is ‘grim’ (the preferred adjective). Then, whenever someone says they don’t wash as often and don’t smell, you get the MN supersmellers who claim to be able to smell someone who hasn’t showered that morning at 100 paces.

Given how many defensive responses there are to all these threads, I’d say the judgemental angle isn’t very healthy, no. The recent pyjama one where posters were rushing to say they didn’t wear a fresh pair every night but did wear knickers to bed struck me as a case of people trying to prove to themselves and others that they were on the side of cleanliness and decency.

Such threads look for validation, are competitive, provocative, and often totally false. They are the product of male disinterest (in general) in the cleaning/domestic duties of a home.

So there you have it. Women slaves again. I doubt there are male dominated fora where the menz stress over cleaning anything apart from their car engines etc.

Do you think it’s right to ban pro-ED content? Genuine question. (MN doesn’t mention this in the talk guidelines, FWIW)

I think it’s a stretch to compare it to pro-and stuff, but I can see your point OP. In my time on MN I’ve encountered posts about:

• Changing bed linen/towels daily;
• Changing PJs daily;
• Horror at no knickers under PJs;
• A poster who said she had a shower after every poo;
• Pubic hair being denounced as unclean;
• Posters calling an OP ‘fucking grim’ for having the same jeans on for several days;
• Countless comments in the ‘shoes on or off’ threads about how the pavements are literally coated in sick, shit, spit and other unsavoury substances and how it’s ‘literally disgusting’ to wear shoes indoors
• Oh, and penis beaker. I rest my case.

I’ve literally only ever encountered references to the above on MN (apart from the pubic hair one, which seems to be endemic to society now). I consider myself a clean person but all of the above are excessive imo.

^ *pro-ana stuff. Damn autocorrect.

I don't think there's really a problem with a simple statement like 'I shower daily'. The problem is more when people say things like 'I shower daily, why wouldn't you? Anything less is gross'. Which introduces judgment, emotion and competition into it. And usually ableism too.

I can't believe the bare faced cheek of this post OP.

I've literally just seen you on another thread declaring that anyone who washes their sheets more than once a week has 'too much time on their hands'

If that's not judgement I don't know what is.

@bringincrazyback

Oh yeah I forgot the folk who have special clothes to wear when sitting on their beds. I just don't understand how people get through their days living like this.

Wow.

That is literally nowhere in OP? It refers to hand washing, washing sheets etc every 15 minutes.

If people find threads triggering then those people need to take responsibility and simply hide the threads.

Ok yes, I shouldn’t have said that. I apologise.

I do think the word "grim" needs to be banned from MN, it's virtually only ever used in this context and in a very judgmental way.

I quite like to turn the competitive hygiene freaks' posts around. For instance, the one who insisted on washing towels every time they were used and anything less was grim: the obvious question arising from that was "Why, don't you wash properly?"

The problem is that this is very difficult when you are already unwell, particularly if you are in denial.

I’m surprised that people are saying washing your sheets every week is excessive? That’s both normal and recommended isn’t it?

Im not a clean freak by any road, I love germs. Germs are brilliant, they help to build immunity. I don’t anti-bac or excessively wash my hands, if I get dirty or use the bathroom then obviously I do. I don’t shower every day (I know people who do twice daily and one has frequent downstairs infections). But washing your sheets every week is recommended due to skin cell build up I thought, I wasn’t aware it was hotly debated!

to be honest OP, I’ve seen both sides of the coin in here and I do t think threads lean one way or another.

Yes, there was a thread recently with some really unreasonable and frankly unwell comments that people were definitely trying to out do including two posters who claimed that their children had to change their clothes and have a shower after entering the house from school or friends houses every time.

Thats not normal or acceptable to push that on children if its true. Theres other examples but they just really annoy me especially the mock horror of these posters when someone says they do something normal like reuse a towel or change the bed once a week/fortnight.

The problem is that this is very difficult when you are already unwell, particularly if you are in denial

It's very difficult but it is possible.

If you've have MH issues you cant expect people to tiptoe around you on the internet. Sometimes you just have to push through and press the hide button or log off altogether.

It must be truly awful to be mentally unwell but the world can't/will never adapt to fit that person.

The responsibility for what they choose to read when they log onto the internet lies with them.

I could understand if you were talking about huge adverts on billboards, or ads on public transport that they can't avoid on their way to work.

But choosing to log on to Mumsnet, knowing you'll have difficulty avoiding those threads really is down to that person.

There will be 100s of different subjects that trigger mentally unwell posters. This forum wouldn't exist if we had to eliminate all of those subjects as there'd be little left to discuss.

I’m not talking about eliminating the subject, just being mindful of how we discuss it. Maybe (although I am
guilty here of posting in AIBU!) confining these topics to housekeeping/health as relevant and MN moving threads out of chat and AIBU would help, so that people can hide those boards.

But what about domestic violence, mental and physical abuse, financial abuse, cheating, rape, child abuse etc - these are triggering to many people and can effect their mental health and come up in threads nearly every day. I don’t think you can do this for just this subject. You’d need a system, possibly that MN gives you the option of not showing you threads with certain trigger words? But I don’t even know if that’s possible?

@Nineeuros

If I'm reading the OP correctly its not about what your hygiene standards are so much as the approach you take to talking about it.

I usually wash and change my sheets every week (unless I've been ill or on holiday). I think that's fairly average.

It's about this thing of saying people are "grim" or "unhygienic" because they're not absolute clean freaks and making other people feel stigmatised if they don't live up to these sometimes pretty OCD standards.

Most of the supposed hygiene breaches which offend people aren't actually hazardous to health. No one is automatically going to smell bad 24 hours after showering but not eight hours. It's not a given that you will pick up infections from people wearing outdoor shoes on your carpet or that you will automatically get salmonella if you leave your chicken out half an hour later than you should. It's people being fastidious and puritanical. And in fact there's a lot of evidence that being overly clean doesn't do your immune system any favours.

The point is everyone is entitled to their own hang-ups and foibles but we should be grown up enough to recognise that these are subjective and not clutch our pearls when other people don't live up to these standards, particularly if its stuff which has the potential to exacerbate neuroses.

That'd be a time consuming nightmare for MNHQ to have to do.

Much much easier for the adults here to take responsibility for themselves and hide the threads that bother them.

I think the point isnt discussing the topic, its more the competative side that hygiene discussions seem to bring out on here, but i agree theres no real way to ban it, but i do think people should be free to talk about how damaging it is.

Yes @Thepeopleversuswork & @AutumnScream, that’s exactly it.

There's definitely no way to ban the competitive crap on here.

You'll see it on almost every subject.

I am with you OP. I find it totally bizarre.

I am a clean kind of person, but some of the folk on that thread were way, way OTT.

Incidentally, who even listens to their MIL using the toilet to know they don't wash their hands. It wouldn't even be on my radar to consider doing this.