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AIBU?

To ask what you think about ‘work for dole’ idea?

518 replies

WakeUpAndBe · 04/10/2022 10:24

Is it reasonable or unreasonable?

Pros: on the surface it sounds reasonable. Means the public won’t view it as “free money” if people are working 30 hours a week for a lot less than the national living wage.

Cons: risks of exploitation and returning to Charles Dickens’ style workhouses for the poor.

Chris Philp said UC claimants should be forced to ‘work for dole’

In his paper, Philp suggested those claiming universal credit should, after a certain time, have to work for their benefits if they were employed for less than 30 hours a week. He suggested those claiming benefits for a disability should be given work that they were physically able to do.
^^
“Philp said they could be asked to complete community work such as cleaning graffiti or clearing parks, charity work, supervised job searching or recognised training to top up their hours to 30 a week. He said a referral to the “work for the dole” scheme would be triggered between three months and two years after first claiming depending on previous national insurance contributions.
^^
“If anyone is not compliant with work for the dole activity requirements, they should automatically have all their universal credit payments suspended as long as the person is not working for the dole,” he wrote at the time. “Although the complete suspension of universal credit benefit payments may seem an extreme sanction, the evidence from the US suggests that this is required to make the scheme fully effective.”

Number crunching

The National Living Wage is currently £9.50 x 30 hours x 4 weeks = £1,140 for 4 weeks

According to the website, monthly UC is £265.31 for single and under 25,
£334.91 for single over 25,
£416.45 for couples under 25
and
£525.72 for couples over 25.

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

576 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
72%
You are NOT being unreasonable
28%
WakeUpAndBe · 04/10/2022 10:35

Heatherjayne1972 · 04/10/2022 10:34

Awful idea.
So a street sweeper gets made redundant and ends up
on the dole
same person is then forced to do his old job for his benefits

why don’t we just pay people properly

Yeah that is the main problem. Too tempting to exploit.

OP posts:
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MrsSkylerWhite · 04/10/2022 10:35

FrankTheThunderbird · Today 10:27
If there's 30 hours of work to do then pay someone to do it. As in a real wage“

this. If people are doing a real job, they get the going rate.
how long before unscrupulous employers start laying people off and adopting effectively slave labour?

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BamBamBilla · 04/10/2022 10:35

If there is a job to do then the employer should be paying for it not the state.

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ginghamstarfish · 04/10/2022 10:35

I don't see why not, for able-bodied people, maybe community cleanup, tidying public spaces etc, like a kind of community service, as it is after all the community paying for the benefits. Surely it is not right that those who are able to work should not be paid to sit at home all day, when many others work hard for low pay and end up in a similar financial situation.

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peassandcarrots · 04/10/2022 10:36

Dotjones · 04/10/2022 10:35

People who can work should be made to work in return for benefit payments. However, they should be paid the living wage. If a job needs doing, pay someone properly to do it.

No, they should be paid a wage not a benefit.

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Londongent · 04/10/2022 10:36

If Chris Philp came up with the idea then instantly you know it is unfair and a poor idea.
There is a minimum wage and it should be stuck to, always.
Echo the phrase the PP used, this is a policy that appeals to the hard of thinking.

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Crunchymum · 04/10/2022 10:36

It's something designed by people who have no idea about the realities of life.

It sounds more like community service (which is a punishment last time I checked)

Utterly unrealistic, unworkable and unjust.

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peassandcarrots · 04/10/2022 10:36

ginghamstarfish · 04/10/2022 10:35

I don't see why not, for able-bodied people, maybe community cleanup, tidying public spaces etc, like a kind of community service, as it is after all the community paying for the benefits. Surely it is not right that those who are able to work should not be paid to sit at home all day, when many others work hard for low pay and end up in a similar financial situation.

Like criminals?

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SleepingStandingUp · 04/10/2022 10:36

So I'm on the dole, meaning I currently don't pay for childcare for my 6 year old. I now get on the work for dole scheme, on the same money but I now have to find money for childcare. So do I put everything on a credit card over the school holidays to pay childcare and end up in massive debt or stop working over the holidays, get sanctioned and not be able to feed my kids?
For 16days of the summer they could access playgroup and so they'll at least get lunch I suppose so maybe they won't totally starve

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OneTC · 04/10/2022 10:37

I don't see why not

Because it's a stupid, corrupt and immoral solution to a problem that only exists in the eyes of morons

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Crunchymum · 04/10/2022 10:38

ginghamstarfish · 04/10/2022 10:35

I don't see why not, for able-bodied people, maybe community cleanup, tidying public spaces etc, like a kind of community service, as it is after all the community paying for the benefits. Surely it is not right that those who are able to work should not be paid to sit at home all day, when many others work hard for low pay and end up in a similar financial situation.

Because everyone on benefits is sitting at home all day.

Could you be more ignorant?

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InMySpareTime · 04/10/2022 10:38

It is a terrible and unworkable idea.
What would actually get people into work is:

•Funded, affordable, tax deductible childcare with flexibility to cover nonstandard and shift working

•A minimum wage set high enough that full time work does not need a benefit topup

•A flexible benefits system that responds immediately to changes in circumstances (ie if you have been paid weekly and lose your job, having a 5 week wait to claim is ludicrous)

•Work that is meaningful and fulfilling, that people can be proud to do. Where caring for the vulnerable is recognised as "hard work" more than sitting at a computer screen, and paid accordingly.

With this lot of heartless bastards in charge it'll never happen though.
How come we need higher wages/bonuses to encourage the rich to work, but sanctions to 'encourage' the poor?
I am fortunate to not rely on benefits, though I know that most people are just one misfortune away from poverty.
We need a bit of compassion, not punitive measures to get people into work.

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AirFryerNinja · 04/10/2022 10:40

We've been doing this in my home country for years.
People on long term unemployment benefits work for 1 euro per hour on top of their benefits.
If you don't participate then you don't get your benefits.

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Cosycover · 04/10/2022 10:40

Similar to what America did. With all sorts of horrible consequences.

It's actually ridiculous to even consider this.

I wish people would get angry at the top rather than those at the bottom.

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Octomore · 04/10/2022 10:41

Dreadful idea, massively open to exploitation.

If there is a genuine job there to be done, then advertise it and pay a fair wage. If there isn't, then there is no need for anyone to do it.

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WakeUpAndBe · 04/10/2022 10:41

SleepingStandingUp · 04/10/2022 10:36

So I'm on the dole, meaning I currently don't pay for childcare for my 6 year old. I now get on the work for dole scheme, on the same money but I now have to find money for childcare. So do I put everything on a credit card over the school holidays to pay childcare and end up in massive debt or stop working over the holidays, get sanctioned and not be able to feed my kids?
For 16days of the summer they could access playgroup and so they'll at least get lunch I suppose so maybe they won't totally starve

The studies do show that women suffer disproportionately than men under the scheme, because of child care commitments that usually fall on women.

OP posts:
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SleepingStandingUp · 04/10/2022 10:41

AirFryerNinja · 04/10/2022 10:40

We've been doing this in my home country for years.
People on long term unemployment benefits work for 1 euro per hour on top of their benefits.
If you don't participate then you don't get your benefits.

How do you finance childcare on benefit money?

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HerculesMulligan · 04/10/2022 10:42

Hello, CCHQ, how nice of you to join us.

There are three primary groups of people on benefits: those too ill to work, those too old to work, and those with caring responsiblities. Investment in the NHS and in particular prevention of chronic illness, supporting employers to incentivise good quality, low-impact part-time work, and investing in childcare would all be ways to tackle this problem, instead of punishing the poor. That doesn't get the Tory juices flowing, though, I know...

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christmasGift · 04/10/2022 10:42

crosbystillsandmash · 04/10/2022 10:28

What do I think of it?

You do realise the vast majority of people on benefits are already working? Or 'working' as unpaid carers for family members with woefully inadequate or non existent local authority help.
Educate yourself before you climb on that high horse op.

How about as a nation we focus on raising wages, providing better, cheaper childcare for working parents and more help for the millions of unpaid carers?

Increasing carers allowance and not deducting it from UC would be the ideal solution I think

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Skyellaskerry · 04/10/2022 10:42

Terrible idea for so many reasons.

If jobs need doing people should be employed and paid a proper living wage. And like others have said people on benefits that are in work are clearly underpaid so employers are currently making profits subsidised by the state.

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FarmerRefuted · 04/10/2022 10:42

It's a shit idea.

As a PP said, if this work exists for benefits claimants to be able to do for "free" then it should exist as a paid job for at least NMW, if not more. And know they're not strictly working for "free" because they would receive UC in exchange however UC is below NMW and its money they should be getting regardless if this proposed scheme didn't exist therefore they would, in effect, be working for free and against their will. There is a name for people forced to work for free and against their will.

People claiming benefits are just as entitled to dignity and fair treatment as people who aren't claiming benefits. Forcing them into modern slavery is not the answer, creates a two tier "us vs them" culture which will widen the divisions in society, and creates further inequality. More people would be pushed into poverty, you'd have people literally foregoing the support they're entitled to simply to avoid the indignity of it. I don't want to live in a country where we have an underclass of "undesirables", out picking litter or cleaning graffiti in their DWP branded hi-vis so that we can all see that they're dirty benefit scum.

(And don't @ me about me implying that litter picking or graffiti cleaning are shameful jobs, they're not shameful jobs when they're properly contracted, paid, and being carried out by people who have chosen to be there).

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romdowa · 04/10/2022 10:42

We had this in Ireland and it failed spectacularly. Businesses were using the scheme to full a vacancy for free, job seekers were promised the scheme would led to training and maybe a job. What happened was once your time on the scheme was over, you were let go and the next person was drafted in. No training was given and people where just exploited

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PastMyBestBeforeDate · 04/10/2022 10:43

Obviously it's a stupid idea but this jumped out at me He suggested those claiming benefits for a disability should be given work that they were physically able to do. Now does he think that I should be given more work to do on top of my busy, professional role?

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AirFryerNinja · 04/10/2022 10:43

@SleepingStandingUp The children are usually at school.

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girlfriend44 · 04/10/2022 10:43

ginghamstarfish · 04/10/2022 10:35

I don't see why not, for able-bodied people, maybe community cleanup, tidying public spaces etc, like a kind of community service, as it is after all the community paying for the benefits. Surely it is not right that those who are able to work should not be paid to sit at home all day, when many others work hard for low pay and end up in a similar financial situation.

Community Service is for people who done crimes.
Being out of work is not a crime. Would you like them to wear a bright jacket with the words I'm unemployed on it too. Silly post.
People aren't being paid to sit at home either. They are receiving a basic allowance to live on while they jobsearch. Woukd you rather they starve?
people are now expected to look for a job 35 hours a week I believe which is a job in itself. They are constantly pressured and have to prove what they are doing so they are hardly sat at home doing nothing.If they do they lose their money.
As also said alot of people claiming benefit are also in work.
Bit of a non starter this thread. Firms should also pay people for work otherwise its exploiting people.

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