To ask what you think about ‘work for dole’ idea?

[WakeUpAndBe]

Is it reasonable or unreasonable?

Pros: on the surface it sounds reasonable. Means the public won’t view it as “free money” if people are working 30 hours a week for a lot less than the national living wage.

Cons: risks of exploitation and returning to Charles Dickens’ style workhouses for the poor.

Chris Philp said UC claimants should be forced to ‘work for dole’

“In his paper, Philp suggested those claiming universal credit should, after a certain time, have to work for their benefits if they were employed for less than 30 hours a week. He suggested those claiming benefits for a disability should be given work that they were physically able to do.
^^
“Philp said they could be asked to complete community work such as cleaning graffiti or clearing parks, charity work, supervised job searching or recognised training to top up their hours to 30 a week. He said a referral to the “work for the dole” scheme would be triggered between three months and two years after first claiming depending on previous national insurance contributions.
^^
“If anyone is not compliant with work for the dole activity requirements, they should automatically have all their universal credit payments suspended as long as the person is not working for the dole,” he wrote at the time. “Although the complete suspension of universal credit benefit payments may seem an extreme sanction, the evidence from the US suggests that this is required to make the scheme fully effective.”

Number crunching

The National Living Wage is currently £9.50 x 30 hours x 4 weeks = £1,140 for 4 weeks

According to the website, monthly UC is £265.31 for single and under 25,
£334.91 for single over 25,
£416.45 for couples under 25
and
£525.72 for couples over 25.

It's a morally and economically illiterate idea beloved by people who either aren't very bright or are deliberately trying to depress wages and/or get people fighting among themselves while they coin it in some other way like avoiding tax.

If there is a job to be done then you employ someone to do it. The theory is that they then spend their money in the economy - that's how Kwasi Kwarteng says supply-led economics works.

But if you get people on unemployment benefits to pick up litter or clean graffiti - those and picking cabbages in Lincolnshire at 4am are always the favoured options - then what should the people who already do those jobs do? Go on the dole and do their jobs at an even more reduced rate than the unprincely sum they are already earning?

If streets are untidy or cabbages are rotting in the fields and you don't like it then just employ more streetsweepers and cabbage pickers. People will work if you pay them a decent rate and depending on your point of view, depressingly or happily even if you don't.

Street cleaning is a bit of a thing for me as I live in an urban non-cabbage growing environment

You could also provide more public bins - there are lots of local authorities (luckily not mine) who've come up the brilliant money-saving wheeze of taking them away and hoping people take their rubbish home with them - spoiler: it doesn't work.

But they are probably as economically illiterate as the OP @WakeUpAndBe and that sad creature Chris Philp whose current form of employment is making excuses for Kwasi Kwarteng.

Imagine being sacked because a company gets a "free" work for dole employee ?

Also, the 6 month duration is weird, surely a minimum wage job should be unskilled enough that you could "train" for it in a few hours.
If these jobs are so complex that it takes 6 months to train for them, they should be classed as Skilled Work and paid accordingly.

Sounds good to me.

It all makes me feel physically ill. I have two DC on disability benefits for their needs. I'm assuming it's sooner rather than later that being a carer will no longer be valid.

Anybody for this should idea should think carefully in case they ever end up on benefits.

Some people seem to think they are above being on benefits but more and more businesses will fold in the coming years, more public services will be cut leading to job losses, more and more jobs will be done by machines and people may find themselves being on the same benefits they once derided others for being on.

We used to try and employ a lot of people who were unemployed, basically as part of CSR programme but also because we wanted to bring new talent forward. After about 3 years experience we would be paying between 30k and 60k depending on the job path they went down. We had excellent training schemes which had been adapted from our graduates programmes and apprenticeship schemes and basically a lot of the people we hired just didn't stay.

They either wouldnt show up for work, didn't like the work environment or had various issues with alcohol or substance abuse which impaired their ability to work to the level we expected. As a company we were making a big investment in these people and it failed. We ran it for 2 years and hired several cohorts of staff. Less than 10% stayed with us for over a year. We ended up offering some of the training programmes for free to other companies in our supply chain to see if that would help - I'm not aware that it was particularly successful.

I think part of the problem is getting people into a work place where they are motivated and eager with a core set of basic skills. If DWP schemes help people with skills, attitude and motivation that would be a big improvement.

@antelopevalley

I presume that's a week?

what other benefits do you get?? UC/housing element?? What else?

The man is a fucknugget of the highest order.

That was very popular under the Cameron/Osborne Workfare years. Obviously it's always been a popular idea with people who want to exploit workers and workers who don't realise they are also under the beady eye but they really brought into fashion.

Why?

Absolutely awful idea. Already been tried out and found to be morally repugnant then as it is now.
You don't encourage or empower people to improve their circumstances by demonising them or making them work like a prison chain gang to create a convenient scapegoat for your failed policies.
I can't wait for the next general election.
Chris Philip is a fucking idiot.

If you are under 35 you are entitled to claim the housing element of UC (old HB) but only up to the local housing allowance rate of a single room.

So if you rent a flat you wont get benefits to cover that. Even in your single room, it cant cost more than the LHA for the area or you will have to top that up

So at 25 as a single person, you might get say £61 for your UC living allowance, and then if you're where I am, your single room rate would be £77pw to pay your rent

Your room might cost £80 and you'll have to top up the other 3 quid a week from your UC

Theres nothing else.

@FarmerRefuted

Thank you.

Rolling in it then!

🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

Martin Lewis on Twitter today:

“I'm seeing some misunderstanding the benefits debate as if it were workers v unemployed.

“Roughly 40% of those who receive Universal Credit get them as in-work benefits to top up low incomes.
Many others too have disabilities or mental health problems making work difficult.”

Topical subject at the moment. Suella Braverman has just spoken about it at the Conservative’s conference.

Dear God, that's horrific! I am so so sorry you were put through that.

how are things for you now?

I expect job seekers will be required to work for their dole as prostitutes and escorts soon. That's how morally bankrupt this country is becoming.

@SarahSissions

And for those already working 30 hours?

They'd probably call it "giving jobseekers a leg up into work" 🫣

I get £320 ish a month. I've only been claiming for two months so I'm not sure how that'll work out long term.

At least if your working in the sex worker industry you can fit it around your children ( yes, I am being sarcastic)
More holiday clubs might be a better idea
Affordable and properly run
They exist ,but expensive and few and far between around here

@tiddlywinks2

im so sorry to hear that. It's particularly scary when you're on your own...and with children it must be terrifying! Do their Dad(s) help you out at all? Have the kids? Take you to appointments etc? Do you have much support? Family/friends? I can't imagine what you're going through x

I'm sorry it's so soul destroying claiming benefits, it bloody well shouldn't be!! not for anyone, but especially not for someone in your position!!

@maddening

UNDER school age? Ok, so who is looking after the primary age children in the holidays? before/after school?

Totally I agree. I used to earn 40k. Gave up work when third child turned out to be preemie weenie sickly twins as couldn’t afford childcare / was completely knackered. Marriage broke down 5 years later. Claimed UC for first time ever had a crappy job 1 month later now 18 months later I am on 18k will go up to 20k soon but am still dependant on UC top ups.

This policy doesn’t really affect me but I’m very much of they will come for me too mentality!

Yes, it could be said it's a job that can be done in school hours. It's also a dangerous, unpleasant job that intersects with slavery, so perfect for the abusive proponents of work for dole scheme.