To think two hours homework a night is not excessive for a year 10 pupil

[Challenger5]

DD 1 is adamant that two hours a night homework, is against her human rights. She has been stomping around, refusing to start her homework. DD 1 is being exceptionally rude to me swearing at me for sending her to a prison camp and claiming to be-having a nervous breakdown due to the schools expectations.

I am trying to calm her down and reason with her, that two hours a night is quite proportionate for a year 10 girl at a Grammar School. This especially as the school as stated her target grades are 7-9 in all ten GCSE subjects.

She has also informed me that her head of year as given her a after school detention, today for calling her English teacher a 'mean cow' for a poor homework mark. DD denies calling the teacher that, saying she was misheard when she pulled her face at the teacher.

DD is saying the detention is unfair and against her human rights because it is grossly an excessive punishment even if she had accidentally muttered 'mean cow' when the teacher spoke to her. DD argues that her face pulling was justified because someone has to stand up against the schools unrealistic and unreasonable levels of homework demanded.

This notion of 'very bright' children waltzing in to an exam room and achieving 9's across the board(perhaps during covid and self assessment) is a fallacy. In a state school even a good one that will be either one person or non existent. In an independent school perhaps higher but we all know those statistics can't be relied upon as it is not a level playing field! It isn't even possible to get a 9 in English without some revision unless you have a photographic memory! What we mean by 'very bright' is usually someone who is gifted in Maths or the sciences most people aren't thinking of natural Historians and besides you cannot do well in the Humanities and English from classwork alone there is not enough time. My DS is in stretching group for Maths but still has to revise, less than his cousin who is at a top independent school as he has an aptitude for it and his cousin doesn't but nevertheless, he still has to revise. Are some posters seriously suggesting he has been wrongly assessed at being exceptional in maths because he has to do some homework! He is also in top group for English, they have a test today, he revised for about an hour last night so this on top of other homework will definitely push in to the 2 hrs some nights.

Being very bright will not be enough at A level stage and certainly not degree. Most of my English Literature degree was about self taught work and few hours with the lecturers. I enjoyed it, it was self indulgent not to be repeated again not something to work smart at as it wasn't 'work' it was an education. I drum this in to my DC as if they want to go to uni and study politics or History or the sciences you need to want to have a thirst for that experience it is not the same as work or even school. My brother in law is pretty much a genius and achieved a 1st in Chemistry from a top uni, he definitely worked hard as I lived with him and saw the hours he devoted to his studies or at the lab. The concept of working smart does not apply and it most certainly is not due to his lack of ability in the area.

No one is suggesting no revision though at all.

For the millionth time - nobody is saying kids can get top grades with zero homework and revision.

The question is whether 2 hours on top of a day at school is too much. And I think it is and it’s unnecessary. That doesn’t mean when exams roll round they won’t need to do hours of revision - they will. They’ll just have paced themselves so they are not burnt out/stressed. They will have had balance in their life so it’s not all about academic pressure.

For some kids an hour will be enough most of the time. Others may need 90 minutes. But if a child needs to do 2 hours of homework every night something has gone wrong somewhere - probably pressure from school/parents.

@Delatron posts are really good, it really is about working smart.

For instance before DSs music assessments he didn't do a huge amount as he is naturally good at it so did a couple of run throughs during the week of them and still got 100%, absolutely no point on doing more work for it. For Spanish he needed to do more, he chose to do minimal amount however to ensure he got a good grade in that but knew if he wanted to get an 8 he needed to put a lot more work in which may have been at the detriment of other subjects, he chose to look at how much value hours of work would add and made sensible decisions about what revision to do based on his ability and his future requirements. To me that is what DCs in Y10/11 should be able to do. I don't understand set homework from school, if they whizz through a 45 min piece of work in 10 mins then they didn't need to do it, better to concentrate efforts where they need to.

Not once did I have to ask DS1 to revise or study, he had good motivation and managed his time well.

You are not getting it!

Two hours a night is not some burdensome endurance for alot of bright kids and a purposeful 2 hrs study for some (no all) that will include revision in year 10 and 11 will be beneficial, with results in exams that they wouldn't have seen otherwise. My DS is in year 11, undoubtedly smart but like me doesn't learn in the little and often way he prefers to get on with it and when he is interested in something will learn more by continuing that trail of thought. The idea that unless you 'work smart' you are somehow intellectually lacking and something is going wrong is frankly rubbish!

Exactly @PugInTheHouse - some subjects may require more revision, some less depending on the child. I just don’t agree with the arbitrary 2 hours and anything less they won’t do well argument.

We do need to take in to account stress levels and mental health. Some children thrive under pressure and will happily work for hours. Others like my dyslexic DS has already worked harder than most at school just to take it in so him doing 2 hours on top of this would be counter productive and a waste of time. For what it’s worth his marks were still top of the class in English as that’s his subject.

I also wonder if hours and hours of homework stifles creativity. We are just focusing on academic outcome at any cost. All children are different and they all learn differently.

And to be honest I couldn’t tell you how many hours homework my children in Yr8 and Yr9 do. They self manage it - it’s handed in on time and they get good marks. If that changes I may look at it. I can’t imagine micro managing a child doing their GCSEs - you can’t force a child to revise - better that they learn what works best for them and that may be through through trial and error and failing a few exams in the run up.

That's ridiculous. Your poor daughter.

If 2 hours study every night is the way that your DS learns best, then that is his "working smart" surely?
Other DC learn in different ways. For my DD that was doing minimal homework most of the time, and then doing more extensive revision and review at the end of a module/section (roughly every half term), with targeted revision on the areas she was weak on just before exams (and less study on the areas she was happy about).

It's the stating that "2 hours homework a night" is always beneficial that people are taking exception too. For some, it's useful to have the routine or the rigour of regular work. For others it's isn't and it's preferable for them to work in different ways.

There is an awful lot of homework set at school that seems to be of the "filling time" variety rather than to fulfill any actual useful purpose. If DC want to do this - then great. However, we shouldn't claim that all homework is equal and not doing it will lead to worse results.

I dint think its us not getting it, the OP is stating that the DCs are GIVEN 2 hrs of homework. That is not them revising or using their time in away productive to their own way of learning. You have literally said your DS works in the way he needs to, given set 2 hrs of homework is the opposite of that. My DS may have done more than 2hrs of revision some evenings, he still played in a sports team throughout his exams so some nights when he got back at 930/10 then a rest/decent night's sleep was better than revision. Nothing can replace hard work but that has to be suited to each child, my DS2 has additional needs and a full day at school is plenty for him, they facilitate him doing 1 less GCSE so he can use those hours to study during the day as no way could he do more in the evening. Him achieving 5s require much more work that many who achieve 7s-9s, including my DS1 who it comes relatively naturally to.

Hard work isn't just studying for GCSEs, this is a vital fact people seem to forget, what about sports teams, music and also part time jobs. All provide valuable skills for the future, arguably more for the majority of children than getting all 9s. Obviously there will be a minority of DCs who require those grades to do very specific degrees but in reality that applies to a very tiny %. Many people running hugely successful businesses making huge amounts of money are not those achieving A*s across the board and spending all spare time studying, they are people with people skills and general knowledge of how real life works.

2 hours a night feels like a lot

I'm not entirely sure how much my YR11 kid gets, as she manages this independently. However, I'm pretty certain it's much more like a hour than two. Perhaps very occasionally more if she has something meaty to get her teeth into - last night she sat with H for an extra half hour after dinner trying to work out some extension maths but it's rare that she involves us to that degree.

She's at a very slightly below average achieving comprehensive. 9 GCSEs, all target grades 8+.

Well firstly, I have nothing to do with managing my eldest's homework, I asked him on the back of this thread but he is in year 11 and has mocks coming up so homework 'is' revision mostly at this stage so can easily do 2hrs, it is not an exact figure as he would count the hours over a weeks rather than daily, it could be 3 hours on Sunday for example and 1 on Saturday morning. There is no pressure, no micromanaging, I don't have time..

Secondly the stereotype of the academic kid with no social life, no charisma and no friends is alive and kicking on this thread! Believe me when I say my DS has no problems there, his social life has been his priority, teachers asking him, via us, to crack on with some work at the weekend occasionally rather than just going out. He is flukey and can get away with doing relatively little for good grades at GCSE. I was the same but I would have got even better grades with some actual revision so an A rather than a B as I revised the morning of the exam etc. He actually brought up this with me and said he needs to prioritise his work over social life as e is trying to pack too much in to one day nd her is not starting homework until 9 at night! He is incredibly competitive and wants to achieve higher grades than his cousin in the same year at a top independent school! It has zero to do with pressure from us as implied on this thread!

I think many posters are arguing two sides of the same coin.

I think 2 hours homework is too much (much too much) but that's because my definition of homework is a specific and directed piece of work that is going to be assessed by the teacher.

My child got 8s and 9s across the board in their GCSEs this summer. They certainly didn't do 2 hours of 'homework' a night. Maybe 2 hours a week maximum. But don't get me wrong. From the start of year 10 they did an hour or two of revision every night and at the weekends. Not because the teacher told them to or even suggested they should, but because they understood what they themselves needed to do to get good grades.

It doesn't matter if its a lot or not, it's what she gets. So she either completes it or she doesn't, that's on her. She will get pulled up on it and her 'human rights ' excuses are likely to be deemed a poor excuse. I went to state school and homework in different subjects varied, it was longer if I had an essay to do, lot less time if it was maths or science.

If she really is struggling work with school and see what can be done but it sounds like she's just going through an unpleasant teenage phase.

Goldenbear - sounds like he has it pretty much sorted, he has what I would want from my DSs and that is good motivation in all aspects, realising their priorities is so important but i dont believe it shouldbe forced, like your DS my DS1 didnt play in a cricket match for instance the night before an exam so he could revise/chill/sleep in preparation but unlike some of his team he would play at a weekend as would ensure he had done enough during the week, some DCs werent allowed at all as parents said no, they didnt do better than DS in their exams though even though they attended a super selective school.

My DS would happily study late at night if he felt it would benefit him and also when they were offered to have an hour with the teacher before their maths exam he'd go to school early to do so. Its got to come from the child though with obviously some encouragement from home/school when required.

Some kids really don't need 2 hrs of revision a night to get 8/9s whereas some even with 2 hrs a night would scrape 4/5s for various reasons. That's why it's so individual hence my disagreement with set homework to that level.

Two hours is INSANE. think about how many kids live in little terraced houses sharing a bedroom with their sibling (actually a huge percentage of the country) where the hell could they go to concentrate for two hours in a full family house?

Most secondaries (and certainly all the ones with homework expectations of this amount) provide homework clubs and library space for the work to be done at school.

School or library. The kids stay later to do it if their home environment isn't set up with a quiet work space.

That can work sometimes, but often just isn't possible. Bus times home, family commitments, mental health (I couldn't work at home but would have been suicidal if I'd had to stay at school longer), needing to eat, all sorts of things. Two hours a night is excessive wherever you're expected to do it.

WAY too much homework.

But WAY too much attitude and an immature way of dealing with the situation from your daughter too. She needs to grow up and make her case more persuasively. Because there is a good case she can make here that the homework is OTT.

2 hours per evening on average across a week is fine in year 10.

And then walk 15 miles home because the school bus leaves at normal school finishing time?
Or do you think deprivation only occurs in inner cities and not in small rural communities?

Maybe you should try and set up a quiet space somewhere in your house to enable your child to study then. At the very least let him / her have someone's room (yours if necessary) to do some quiet study in. Then he /she can get the bus home in time.

Or does your loud noisy family only have one room between you all to live in / sleep in too...

Two hours sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Surely it's unusual to have spare rooms/ space for quiet study? I don't know any families with that luxury.