To think two hours homework a night is not excessive for a year 10 pupil

[Challenger5]

DD 1 is adamant that two hours a night homework, is against her human rights. She has been stomping around, refusing to start her homework. DD 1 is being exceptionally rude to me swearing at me for sending her to a prison camp and claiming to be-having a nervous breakdown due to the schools expectations.

I am trying to calm her down and reason with her, that two hours a night is quite proportionate for a year 10 girl at a Grammar School. This especially as the school as stated her target grades are 7-9 in all ten GCSE subjects.

She has also informed me that her head of year as given her a after school detention, today for calling her English teacher a 'mean cow' for a poor homework mark. DD denies calling the teacher that, saying she was misheard when she pulled her face at the teacher.

DD is saying the detention is unfair and against her human rights because it is grossly an excessive punishment even if she had accidentally muttered 'mean cow' when the teacher spoke to her. DD argues that her face pulling was justified because someone has to stand up against the schools unrealistic and unreasonable levels of homework demanded.

Its excessive

And walked to school, in all weathers, uphill both ways!

It’s one way to increase your chances of becoming successful, and I prefer work smart, not hard as there is a limit. Tons of people I know are very hard workers. Are they successful? No. A few have been, but they are the exception not the norm and it’s been working smart + good luck.

I think it’s important to be realistic to kids especially my working class DC that even if you do work hard, it is no guarantee of success because privilege is a thing and has more impact on your life chances than anything else in this world. This is an inescapable fact. Class privilege, wealth privilege, and for my DDs male privilege.

Just like the other facts of bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.

We don’t live in a meritocracy and I’m tired of the pretence that we do.

We don't live in a meritocracy but if you take 2 children in similar circumstances, one of whom works hard, one of whom is lazy, the hard worker will do better in life probably 99% of the time.

This.

Your 10 yo is at Primary right? So not the same situation.

What does "simply be kids" even mean? They aren't kids when they're at school? Or when they're doing homework?

It’s not a choice between being lazy and doing 2 hours every night though is it? There’s lots of middle ground which allow for a more balanced, less pressurised life whilst still doing just as well (if not better judging by some of the breakdowns I have seen at the local grammar school)..

Depends how you define success. Right? Trump (hate him), he worked hard on setting up business after business (casinos, fake universities, property developments, hotels, golf courses etc) and through his sheer idiocy lost most of his billions in inheritance money. When you look at the trail of failures behind the man, you have to admit, yes he worked hard to lose billions. It was calculated that if he’d simply left his billions in a mutual fund or two, and did nothing but sit around a pool and sip margaritas all day he’d be ten times richer than he is now. So in his case, lazy would have been the better course if you measure success in £££. That’s a sobering thought really, that the Uber rich have to work hard to lose their money and being lazy is how to hold on to wealth. But it’s true. Do you think the Duke of Westminster works hard to keep owning half of London?

and hard work vs lazy is such extreme language! We are talking about doing 7hrs/day vs 9hrs/day…there is no lazy when doing 7hrs instead of 9hrs?

how is success measured? For GCSEs it is in the grade you get on an exam. There’s no set rule that 2hrs day homework gets you a higher grade than if you hadn’t done 2hrs/day…in fact it’s more likely the 7hrs of teaching you’re supposed to get each day have a much greater impact on your GCSE grades than the hours of homework you do. After all, that’s the bulk of learning time with a supposed expert!, so why are we telling children it is all on them and on how hard/long they work? When it’s a small factor really (imho)

Against her human rights??? That's ridiculous

At our local secondary It's 30 mins per subject (x3) years 7,8,9
then 45 mins per subject (x3) years 10, 11

6th form 1 hour per subject per night

If you want good results you have to put the effort in!

2 hours a night sounds insane.

Well that is simply not true and if you look at how the top private schools achieve higher grades it is down to a formula that works across the board and not only for the incredibly bright! I don't think this is what an 'education' is but I equally don't agree with the other extreme that suggests home learning and independent learning has no benefit or impact on a child's education. Yes, of course social factors come in to play but that aside it is more likely to create the conditions for success which may look like 5 GCSEs at grade 5 rather than nothing at all. Although we don't live in a meritocracy it is loads better than it was. It is a fact that to escape a cycle of poverty education is a key part of that.

@Delatron

Personally I think a year 10 student who is having tantrums and kicking off about doing 2 hours homework because they’d rather spend time on tiktok is being lazy.

2 hours a night isn’t even a lot. A DC could easily have more than 4 hours to chill/do whatever they want after doing their 2 hours.

DS1 is in year 11 and has a physics test coming up. He has done 3.5 hours revision last night and 4 hours tonight because he wants to do well and knows he needs to work hard to so and has had this ingrained in him.

@TreeLine6 ’He’s had this ingrained in to him’ Who by? You?

I think it’s a far better skill for children to work out for themselves their homework schedule/ how much revision they need to do etc. It will vary per child. It’s not one size fits all. Some children pick up concepts quicker than others. Some read a text and it goes straight in. But part of growing up and being self sufficient with your learning is working all this stuff out. Not having an overbearing parent breathing down their necks with a stop watch.

Is the OP going to be forcing her child to do hours of work at A-level? Will she follow her to Uni to check how many hours work she’s doing?

You had a DITCH! I had to sleep on the hard shoulder of the M1. You were so privileged. Fuxake!!!!

😂

Well that is simply not true and if you look at how the top private schools achieve higher grades it is down to a formula that works across the board and not only for the incredibly bright!

Yes, the formula is mostly called entrance exams so you can turn away the not incredibly bright…and pressuring parents of failing students that they’re just not a “good fit for little James who would perhaps do better at a lower pressure environment..could we suggest a boarding school in Switzerland? nudge nudge”

Then a dash of having the highest paid teachers so you get the best teaching staff. Lots of IT resources and cool field trips.

State schools can’t turn anyone away for lack of “brightness”, and have shoe string budgets where the staff are over worked and underpaid, and they have to choose between feeding students or fixing leaky toilets.

Agree! That’s work smart not work hard.

I think you're massively overstating this.
My observation is that hard work counts for less than charisma, selling yourself, networking, focus, luck etc.

There are an awful lot of people in very low paid jobs working an awful lot harder than people in very well paid jobs.

Knowing how much work you need to do to either progress or get away with it (depending on your perspective) is quite a useful skill.

There's also the rather over simplistic view on this thread that working more=getting better grades.

Many naturally bright children don't do much extra work and still get good grades.
Some less bright children work much harder and still don't get such good grades.

There's also the law of diminishing returns. A certain amount of homework may be useful in boosting grades, but there comes a point where the amount of work that you put in will make minimal or no impact to improving any results.

no one can define what this amount of homework is because it will vary by child.

If you want good results you have to put the effort in!

This is only true to a point though.

Some children will get excellent grades without bothering at all with homework.
Others could spend hours on homework and still get poor grades.

Most are probably somewhere in the middle.

I also think there's a point where, if you have to study for several hours a day after school plus weekends to get certain grades at GCSE, you need to think about how practical that is in the long run.

I think with homework, you have to consider what this will look like when selecting your schools. Ask at the open evenings what the expectations are with homework and the usualy workload.

Choosing a school that you know expects up to 2 hours per night means you accept this.

Two hours a night is ridiculous.

When does she have down time? Does she not see friends after school or go to any clubs?

What a shame. What a lot of pressure for a 10 year old.

Ahh YEAR 10!

It's still far too much.

Hi OP. as with most things in life, it's about quality rather than quantity. Or as another op says - work smart, not hard.

Just sitting there for 2 hours if they're not in a productive mood is a waste of time and will only build resentment.

My DC were at some of the top independents in the U.K. and I do remember teachers recommending this "2 hours a night" guideline.

I don't think any of them actually did this though. It would have really varied week to week. Some students prefer to do minimal amounts on weekday evenings, but catch up at the weekend when they're less tired. Everyone is different.,

To some extent, I think you have to pick your battles here. Don't get into a head on as it will have the opposite effect to what you're hoping for. Reframe if to her as - "I expect you to get everything done to a good standard and the best if your ability." Let her decide when and how she does that.,