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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is my BIL a CF?

105 replies

xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 12:00

Long one. Bear with. Don't want to drip feed. Recognise that there are many more important things going on in the world but I AM SEETHING.

My BIL contacted me a few weeks ago to ask if we knew of anyone who could rent out a room in London for a few nights to one of his work colleagues. He told me the budget. I checked with my sister on the off chance and, as it was a favour for my BIL, she reluctantly said ok. When we reverted to my BIL he said thanks but no longer needed.

So far so good. Later that same evening my BIL contacted me again and said that actually he might need the room himself, same terms. He said he’d let me know a few days later which he did.

He then got in touch directly with my sister, knocked the price down by 20% per night even though he was not paying out of his own pocket as it’s a work trip (and the original amount in question was way below the cost of a central London hotel room). He also separately told me he would need an invoice for the cost and I said I was sure that would be fine. On the first day he arrived hours later than he agreed with my sister which inconvenienced her as she was leaving that day to go away for a few days. She provided the invoice on his arrival as requested. She left him milk, tea, biscuits, fresh bread, fruit etc to get him started.

He stayed three nights, leaving on Wednesday. By Friday he hadn’t been in contact or made payment. My sister mentioned this to me. She sent him a quick message asking if everything was ok, he said yes and asked her for her international details as he doesn’t have a sterling account. She wasn't sure exactly what was needed so I said "here, just send him mine, I'll explain to him to just make the payment to me and I'll pass it to you."

Saturday - I have received no payment. I mentioned to my DH that I was a bit peeved as it was embarrassing for me. I did not ask DH to get involved. However my DH then sent his brother a message, politely asking him to make the payment, but also mentioning that BIL had negotiated a reduction. BIL then messaged my sister to say he had paid.

Monday arrives - I have still not received the payment.

I am now further peeved about this and want to say something to my BIL but my sister says, it’s ok, leave it.

I mention to my DH again who then says he will pay my sister himself and then he “doesn’t want to hear another word about it”. He has now done this. He says his brother confirmed he’d made the payment on Saturday and his brother was “quite angry about how this has been handled”. DH also says it’s a “measly amount” and is saying my sister is creating drama and is no longer welcome to visit us.

I have pointed out that it is me who is angry with BIL, not my sister - and that the fact is BIL still hasn’t paid, whatever he says! I say that I’m annoyed because I was the one who persuaded my reluctant sister to help him out, that BIL wouldn’t be able to leave a hotel without paying so why does he think it’s ok to leave a private room and not pay for over 4 days, that as he works in a senior role in IT for an international company it is surely not beyond him to have found some way by now of paying for things in sterling in a more timely manner (Revolut??), that claiming he was too busy to attend to this when he had time to send stupid messages, gifs and emails about it over the last few days is not an acceptable stance (by comparison, my DH was able to say “I’ll pay” and then do so in less than 5 minutes), that arguing it’s “a measly amount” so why am I making a fuss and making out that it’s my sister who is at fault is ridiculous, that it was rude and discourteous for my BIL to arrive late on the first day without explanation, that it was mean to knock the price for the room down by 20% when it had already been agreed in advance and that my DH is basically being gas lit by his brother, my BIL, who is only "annoyed at the way it's been handled" because he is now aware that Inknow he hasn't paid, my DH knows he hasn't paid and my sister knows he hasn't paid.

AIBU or is my DH being unreasonable?

Secondary question - is my BIL a CF?

My DH says as he has now paid there is no need for any further discussion. I have said fine and that I will let DH know when the payment allegedly made by my BIL on Saturday finally arrives in my account, and will then reimburse my DH.

Hopefully sterling will still be the currency in the UK by then and the banking system won’t have crashed in the meantime. 😊

OP posts:
lamaze1 · 03/10/2022 14:14

I'd give your BIL a wide berth too. Life is too short to be dealing with idiots let alone CF idiots.

billy1966 · 03/10/2022 14:15

You are clearly being gaslit in your relationship.

Its a measly amount?
He doesn't want to discuss it?
There is no need to discuss it further as hevhas paid it?

Who exactly does your husband think he is telling you your sister is banned and what you can and cannot discuss.

Bullying arsehole.

That's some shit marriage you have going on there OP.

You mind yourself.

xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 14:16

I just ducked back in and I sense I have unleashed a tsunami of anger. DH is normally lovely but BIL is his older brother and has often over the years got away with things because of his position in the family. For example, BIL used to sell his toys to his younger siblings (when they were already broken) and rent out things like his Monopoly board to them. I always thought 🙄 and imagined these were tall tales but it appears not. DH is fine and I think his reaction is just that - a reaction because I have called out his beloved older brother for what he is and just as I am embarrassed with my sister, DH is embarrassed with me. But I got angry with BIL whereas DH has got angry with me and with my sister. I'm not actually at home at the moment so communication with DH is by messages but I have repeated to him a few times the mantra "can't you see that being angry with anyone other than BIL is ridiculous?"

My sister will of course be welcome in our home anytime. DH is just being silly saying anything about that.

BIL will get short shrift from now on. He's asked a few favours over the years and I've always been happy to accommodate but that won't be happening again and I'm perfectly happy to make it clear to anyone who asks why this is.

As it happens the more I think about it, the whole family does actually know what BIL is like so I'm fairly sure they will all read between the lines anyway. .

I am actually quite fond of BIL and also dearly love DH but I think this is a lesson to be a careful of doing things with family where money is involved.

OP posts:
billyt · 03/10/2022 14:17

And if your sister has created a personal receipt/invoice I'll bet he's doctored it before submitting.

Seems CF is a family trait.

PuntasticUsername · 03/10/2022 14:17

I think you're getting off a bit lightly OP. You persuaded your sister to do this, she really didn't want to, and she was damn right wasn't she?

xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 14:21

Fladdermus · 03/10/2022 12:24

Your BIL and DH are both being dickheads.

However, international bank transfers can take a few days to come through so BIL may well have made the payment on Saturday.

Yes quite right. However BIL is always going on about how "cutting edge" he is and how widely travelled - so I would have thought he might have a managed to get hold of a Revolut card or similar - you can load it up with any currency and send money in any other currency instantly to anyone with an email address. One of my 10 year old nieces has one in the same country as my BIL so....... (recommended by MSE as a good way to save on currency fees when travelling, no, I don't work for Revolut...)

OP posts:
bewarethetides · 03/10/2022 14:22

BIL is a CF who had no intention of paying, pocketing the per diem rate he got from his company, because he knows that your idiot DH will enable him rather than accept the reality that his own brother is a total asshole.

xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 14:23

7eleven · 03/10/2022 13:17

I think your OH is embarrassed and is being an arse.

Presumably you own half the house? Decide which half is yours and invite your sister over to it. You have the kitchen and lounge. Give your husband the spare room and worst bathroom. 😄

How fucking dare he declare who can and can’t come over.

He can't dictate anything. He knows it and I know it. He's lovely, really. Just misdirected on this one.

OP posts:
xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 14:27

SummerInSun · 03/10/2022 13:43

Agree with all PP. Your BIL and DH are being jerks.

There is one way in which you ABU, though - you should never have pressured your sister to have a visitor she didn't want. If all these people are travelling for work then their work can pay for a hotel, apartment or Air B&B like all other companies do. My guess is they work for a company that will pay £X per night for a business trip to London and if you are able to find accommodation that's cheaper than that, you are allowed to pocket the difference. Either that or the company paid BIL on receipt of the invoice and he was hoping your sister wouldn't chafe for payment.

Fair enough, I didn't pressure her though, she knows her own mind and would have said no if she wanted - but it was a bit of extra money, she was away anyway when he was staying ans I foolishly encouraged it as I believed that any normal person would stay and then pay.

She is with me now and she's cool about the whole thing (mind you, she's been paid now - its my DH who is out of pocket lol). I haven't told her I've posted about it on here though as she would tell me off. I do think I'm a bit extra sensitive about what has happened because she IS my sister - which is why I thought I'd double check what the consensus was on here.

OP posts:
GreenManalishi · 03/10/2022 14:28

Doesn't want to hear another word about it? I'll bet he doesn't.

Pair of CFs, however as you don't live with BIL, and you do at the moment with DH, then it's him that you've got the problem with. There is no way that I would be making any room whatsoever for him to take further liberties with me.

As for DH telling you that your sister is no longer welcome in your home because of this, when she's the one who has been shafted.... utter nonsense. No way this would fly with me.

xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 14:28

lamaze1 · 03/10/2022 14:13

If it's such a measly amount why did twatty brother in law knock the price down and still not pay? Your DH is, as others have said also in the wrong here. They should both be ashamed of themselves. I hope he has apologised for what he has said about your sister and genuinely retracted the "she isn't welcome" statement.

I think he knocked the price down because he likes to think he's a smarter operator than everyone else.

He isn't.

OP posts:
xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 14:30

PuntasticUsername · 03/10/2022 14:17

I think you're getting off a bit lightly OP. You persuaded your sister to do this, she really didn't want to, and she was damn right wasn't she?

Smart cookie, my sister. 😊

OP posts:
Testina · 03/10/2022 14:39

“doesn’t want to hear another word about it”.

That would be the first and last time my patronising arsehole of a husband got to act like he was my dad 🤷🏻‍♀️

DelurkingLawyer · 03/10/2022 15:00

Anyone else think the “colleague” who needed the room was a complete invention? Somehow to sound out your sister and then when the colleague “disappeared” to say ah well I need it but mates rates because family…

UnshakenNeedsStirring · 03/10/2022 15:02

7eleven · 03/10/2022 13:17

I think your OH is embarrassed and is being an arse.

Presumably you own half the house? Decide which half is yours and invite your sister over to it. You have the kitchen and lounge. Give your husband the spare room and worst bathroom. 😄

How fucking dare he declare who can and can’t come over.

Good idea!! I would definitely invite my sister over if I were you

Changechangychange · 03/10/2022 15:06

Teenyliving · 03/10/2022 12:27

I can guarantee you your BIL would
have been paid a very generous hotel allowance by his employer thst he will have pocketed

This. If his employer is paying, why stay anywhere other than a hotel? Unless you are pocketing it. Your BIL is not somebody I’d ever have any financial dealing with again..

Xiaoxiong · 03/10/2022 15:33

just as I am embarrassed with my sister, DH is embarrassed with me. But I got angry with BIL whereas DH has got angry with me and with my sister.

I don't quite understand this, why would you have any reason at all to be embarrassed by your sister? She's done nothing wrong except ask for money that no one disagrees she is owed.

LookItsMeAgain · 03/10/2022 15:36

Roomytrouser · 03/10/2022 12:05

Both your H and your BIL are arseholes.

This.

I'd reverse your 'D'H's position back on him.
Your BIL (his brother) is no longer welcome to visit because HE didn't pay family for a business trip.

I would suggest that the BiL, armed with the fake invoice, submitted same to his company accounts department and HE has been reimbursed for this stay. I further suggest that BiL has (or at least had) no intention whatsoever in reimbursing you or your sister for the stay.

If I were your sister, I'd consider dropping him in it. Contact the company accounts department and say that there was an error on the invoice and could they reverse it please? A new invoice will be issued in due course. See if that would work.

Your BiL is a massive CFker.

xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 16:15

DelurkingLawyer · 03/10/2022 15:00

Anyone else think the “colleague” who needed the room was a complete invention? Somehow to sound out your sister and then when the colleague “disappeared” to say ah well I need it but mates rates because family…

Hmm possibly. However the "mates rates" aspect is minor - it was between my sister and him (I just thought it was a bit mean of him). It's the not paying aspect that really annoys me.

OP posts:
xquietlyseethingx · 03/10/2022 16:21

Xiaoxiong · 03/10/2022 15:33

just as I am embarrassed with my sister, DH is embarrassed with me. But I got angry with BIL whereas DH has got angry with me and with my sister.

I don't quite understand this, why would you have any reason at all to be embarrassed by your sister? She's done nothing wrong except ask for money that no one disagrees she is owed.

I mean that I feel embarrassed not BY my sister but when dealing WITH her on this, I feel like an idiot as basically I vouched for BIL and didn't think he would do this. And I think my DH is embarrassed when talking to me about it because it's his brother - but he has decided to take his brother's side. BIL obviously got to him. BIL told my DH that my sister never gave BIL her bank account details but they were on the invoice. Only when she messaged him on Friday did he reveal that he is still banking in the previous century and needs IBAN number and BIC number. Obviously hasn't heard of PayPal friends and family, Revolut etc.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 03/10/2022 16:28

LookItsMeAgain · 03/10/2022 15:36

This.

I'd reverse your 'D'H's position back on him.
Your BIL (his brother) is no longer welcome to visit because HE didn't pay family for a business trip.

I would suggest that the BiL, armed with the fake invoice, submitted same to his company accounts department and HE has been reimbursed for this stay. I further suggest that BiL has (or at least had) no intention whatsoever in reimbursing you or your sister for the stay.

If I were your sister, I'd consider dropping him in it. Contact the company accounts department and say that there was an error on the invoice and could they reverse it please? A new invoice will be issued in due course. See if that would work.

Your BiL is a massive CFker.

This is real scorched earth stuff, but I like it.

It's CF shit like this, where someone I care about is taken advantage of, that would mean I would go all out to embarrass them.

OP, your excusing your husband is very poor.
He's as big a CF as his brother.

If I were you I would be mortified in front of my sister that I was married to such an ass and his dishonest liar of a brother.

Tacky doesn't touch it.

HE would not be welcome in MY house and I would shame the hell out of him with the rest of the family.

Remember he clearly places NO value on his relationship with you to behave like this.

I think he needs the wind put up him that your sister will submit the invoice directly to his company so she can be paid and repay her sisters husband.

Xiaoxiong · 03/10/2022 16:30

Ahh I see, that makes sense. Well your sister obviously had the measure of him, so as long as you learn from this then you have nothing to feel embarrassed about.

"BIL obviously got to him" - I wonder how. Sounds like he's wrapped up in some FOG regarding this prize specimen. Is there a golden child (BIL)/ scapegoat (DH) dynamic in his family?

Blueberrywitch · 03/10/2022 16:34

your DH said your sister isn’t welcome to visit anymore? What the actual fuck? That’s so weird.

also so weird for your BIL to stay at your sisters anyway on a work trip, surely he has a work travel budget and much easier to stay at a hotel?

BIL is a CF but so is your DH, who should apologise to you and your sister (if she has heard what he has said Re visiting).

Cookiemonstersnana · 03/10/2022 16:36

If your dh is saying that your sister is not welcome then you say Bil is also never welcome ever again. Both DH and Bil are not only CF but pricks as well.

mamas12 · 03/10/2022 16:46

Good idea to tell bil and Dh that your sister will invoice the company
I bet the money will be paid back asap then