Would you support a nurses strike?

[VirtueClapper83]

If there’s any truth (little probably) in the headlines, 40000 nurses left the profession last year for better paid jobs/retirement. There can’t be any substantially significant net gain to the profession. Would you support strike action as we’re about to be balloted for it?

Sorry can’t tag everyone as the thread has got so busy.
but a few responses/thoughts to staying late or working extra.

It’s fairly clear to me on the thread who is working currently as a nurse and can give many examples of when you can’t just leave. - well physically you can but it might mean literally leaving a patient in the process of taking their own life. (I work in mental health). And morally I can’t leave them plus I wouldn’t fancy explaining myself to the Coroner.

However the issue is that such events should be once in a blue moon and ideally I could hand over to a colleague. Years ago with adequate staffing this would have happened. But the colleagues are already busy at the start of night shift so to relieve me immediately (from an appointment that should have finished) means them leaving or cancelling one of their own patients.

What happens if the oncoming shift doesn’t arrive (or is only partially staffed?)
For those not currently working as a nurse I will tell you some likely answers to this and none are immediate:

The senior nurse scrambles to try and get bank/agency or move staff from other areas.
The evening and morning staff usually do ‘deals’ to stay late or come in early next day so that things like IVs can be checked. Or in mental health ‘paired’ visits can go ahead (so a colleague isn’t left going out on their own to a block of flats in the night to a patient who poses a risk)

My worst day lasted about 18 hours and I wasn’t even clinical at the time I was a band 7 supporting the team. I started at 8 (early), did a long day mix of clinical and management. (Things like the roster still have to be done). At 8pm I went to a different base to support the wider team on night shift. It was short already plus someone didn’t turn up. At some point around 1am I started to feel quite unwell so I told the support worker I couldn’t do further work. I called on a colleague in another team to take over on top of their own work - thankfully she wasn’t working to rule.

There wouldn't need to be a full on strike. Work to rule would be just as effective - staff could take their breaks and stop when there shift ends.

And it's not just hospitals - although that would no doubt be on the news - there are hundreds of thousands of community health visits every single day at clinics, at home, in community hospitals and rehab wards, keeping people out of hospitals, keeping people well at home - the only good thing about a strike would maybe be that the hidden healthcare that we don't see on the media might be visible - vast majority of health care happens in the community, not in hospitals.

@Oldoldold the ambulance waits are because there are no beds. I work in medical receiving, every day I come in to every single bed full and about 10 corridor beds and a waiting room full. Every bed in the hospital is full and often 7 beds put into 6 bed bays and multiple corridor patients. There are so so many very unwell people but also complex social admissions where the patient have such high needs they can't safely go home but awaiting a package of care or nursing home placement. There's a number of assessments required for these, OTs, physio, SW, determination of capacity, applying for funding which all takes time and then a placement/package of care can be found. Then there is often families unsure of what is the right decision for their parent..more hospital days. People are living longer but generally need much more support in their latter days and people who would have been unpaid carers previously now have to work until they are 67 and often have grandchildren they care for. In every hospital there is at least one ward full of patients awaiting care home/POC. Social care has been underfunded for years and carers are paid minimum wage for the short time they are in someone's house (to wash, feed and give tablets) and not paid for their time to travel in between clients, I can understand why so few are going into that role and sometimes those who are are doing it out of necessity and not necessarily suited to the role.
We actually often have sufficient well trained staff and we run manic the full 12 hours just to deal with the sheer volume and acuity of patients.

Yes I would support a strike, I think the problem is that it will be a half job and not that effective. You see all these signs from shops saying they have had to closed early due to having no staff...nurses don't get to do that, they just split the number of patients to a higher ratio, so every day you have potentially double the number of patients and expected to care for them safely. See QEUH Glasgow where they recently had one nurse on for 30 patients, alone in a ward overnight, that's no breaks even to go to the toilet . Also there is some evidence showing that every extra patient you have is 7% more likely to die which is why the US has strict nurse to patient ratios.

Yes of course!

I think nurses are wonderful and deserve better working conditions, but a strike on the classic sense would seriously damage further patients.
I think we need to come up with a different version of "striking", like taking signatures, writing to parlament, putting signs up, standing together for a few minutes in protest...
If all the sectors that need higher pay go on strike, the country will stop moving, and we all have plenty of reasons to strike at present.
Already the train strikes are been really disruptive and damaging the pockets of hard working citizens and companies instead of getting any effect on the goverment.
We should have the power to force elections when things get so out of hand to be honest.

Yes and prepared to pay more tax - any increase must funded nit out of current budget or trusts would have to cut services or they’d go bust.

I’d be scared of it because it’s possible I’ll need admission- would be A&E likely but not life threatening unless not treated (and yes must be A&E, other services can’t treat).

Nurses going on strike won’t change sod all. It didn’t change anything last time we went on strike.

For some reason the government is hell bent on paying nurses a shit wage - less than teachers. I’ve been nursing for 10 years and my son earns more than I do after 12 months in his job (I’m pleased for him of course!) but why are nurses paid such shit wages??

On top of this you have the subtle “up skilling” of staff meaning they can get more out of you for less pay. A few years ago, only doctors put male catheters in, put cannulas in, held diagnostic clinics, prescribed … now nurses do it but the pay did not increase.

A few years ago only nurses administered insulin and applied compression bandaging … now health care assistants do it - their pay didn’t increase either.

Im doing everything I can to get out of nursing as it is NOT a valued profession and nothing is ever going to change.

yes go for it weve had enough of this crummy government

Strike!
I'm not expecting things to change from it but they definitely won't if nurses do nothing.

No

People will die. The NHS is in a dire straits as it is.

This thread is both highly amusing and depressing.

Bringing the army in to cover a nurses strike?

Hahahahahahahahaha!

Don't get me wrong, we did have soldiers who came to help out in my hospital during covid, but they did not do any clinical work. It would be interesting and scary to see a solider trying to take a capillary blood gas, or put a catheter in.

The general public seem to have no idea of what nursing actually entails, but then again neither did I until I qualified, and I only have the experience of 5 different areas so am still fairly clueless about the rest of the vast work of the NHS nurses.

But I still don't think a strike is the answer. A new government maybe.

Well it’s another example of how nursing isn’t seen as a valued profession. “Get the army in to cover” reads as “anyone could do their job”

They’ll get agency staff in, just like any normal day when they don’t want to pay their actual staff overtime 🤷🏼‍♀️

As an ex-nurse; yes I would.
it’ll never happen though.

Yes. Fully support them.

I always support the right to strike but I hope they strike over conditions and patient safety before pay. I had a nurse scoff at how much I'm paid (8 years at uni, long hours, stressful job) turns out she (the nurse) is on £60k and thought I was stupid for picking such an underpaid career.

But then the railway signallers are striking to ask
For a 10% pay increase when plenty of them are on £120k pa with overtime but I guess that 10% will pay for their next Range Rover so that's okay 🤷‍♀️

Absolutely!

When there is an emergency it’s obviously accepted. But a significant number are staying back to do work generated throughout the day and so management believe “ we can manage on x amount of staff”

Are those figures accurate?

Yes I will support full strike pay, work to rule, staff being able to go on the picket line, managers getting off their arses to help out on the wards, military nurses can help out, the RCN growing some unlike their pitiful action in the past where nurses had to join Unison instead, patients wont suffer because a) it will never happen and b) if it does then Trusts would rather spend millions on agency cover rather than pay their own staff. It was hard enough for us to try and support the hospital staff, patients and local residents when the Govt sold off my training hospital and 2 other central London hospitals which are now all luxury housing developments.

If they're ok 60k a year, then hell no, I won't be supporting them!

How many ward based nurses are on 60k a year?

What the fuck are you talking about?

read the posts