To ask what people have against Labour?

[TheSmallestOneWasMadeline]

I have come across lots of people who, even while admitting that the Conservatives are far from ideal, seem to scrunch their nose up and say 'but, ew, Labour' when talking about politics.

I have to admit I dont understand what it is that people think is so terrible about them and nobody ever cares to elaborate! I always vote for them as I think their principles align pretty closely with my own even if I don't agree with absolutely e everything they stand for.

Could someone please explain what people think is so terrible about them that they would do a worse job at running the country than the Conservatives have done?

That's right now a snapshot in time , no government could successfully steer through what has been thrown on us globally . Give it time and things will be better and todays pills will be a distant memory . For most Tories they will not bring themselves to vote labour the party of the losers . There's an aspiration for some about voting Conservative that Labour just doesn't offer . Militant unions and hair shirts .

Polls

I think if Labour want to win the next general election, they need to say what their actual policies are stop whinging and moaning about Conservatives and rather then say how badly they are doing say what they will do better ,also they need to get people on there side rather then telling people who they dont agree with they are thick and stupid they need to be trying to get them to agree with their policies, I'm not sure keir Starmer is the the man for the job though he's rather insipid .

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/dwp-benefits-statistics-february-2021/dwp-benefits-statistics-february-2021

@Florenz a lot of people who are taking from the welfare budget are those who have earned a state pension, the rest is made up of people who are working, but are poorly paid, people who are looking for work and people who are unable to work due to disability or ill health of themselves or their dependents.Its all there on the link.

Gosh, no, I think it's quite the opposite.

Labour today is about the most bourgeoisie organization I could think of. Looks it, sounds it, and acts it.

Identity politics, intolerance & misogyny

They adjusted the balance on artificially low interests rates. Which shouldn't have been kept so low for so many years anyway. This is what has caused the problem. Low interest may have been useful in the short term to stimulate the economy, but longer term it has increased house prices and stifled investment. Causing far more harm than good.

They’ve been in power for 12 years. It’s all about balance, yes, but they’ve normalised the fact that working people can’t afford food. And actively promote them as a win.

Brown shouldn't have bailed out the banks. They were badly run, let them fail. Let the well-run banks succeed and the poorly-run ones go out of business. There's no incentive to run banks properly if they know the government will bail them out when they fail. It just incentivises them to to take risks. I've got no problem with bankers bonuses, it's not like the banks are paying them bonuses for the sake of it, they're paying them a fraction of what they make for the bank.

Tax rates should be set at whatever will bring in the most revenue. Morality and social justice shouldn't come into it. And tax revenue should be spent wisely. Not spunked up the walls. The public sector should exist to serve the tax-paying public. Not the public sector worker. Public sector workers (including the government) should realise they work for us, not the other way round. We are the masters, they are the servants.

How do you feel about the LPs historic association with Stalin's regime, particularly keeping quiet about the plight of political prisoners?

This kind of very black and white view of Labour being the good guys is very naive and part of what puts people off.

This. ^

Most of the vociferous labour voters I know are champagne socialists who all live in leafy, safe areas and make very sure their own children aren’t exposed to the sort of crap schooling and poverty stricken environments they wring their hands over. They’re absolute hypocrites who don’t have a clue, and don’t give a shit, what ordinary working class people have to put up with. It’s all about cultural correctness over integrity and what matters.

I've not really seen anyone happy with things as they are now.

The thread asked why people hate Labour.

Some have said why they think others hate them, some why they do but have said they will vote for them anyway, some have said that they won't, but they still don't seem happy with the Tories either. They just think Labour is in some way worse.

So the Tories are the ones looking after working class people?

Labour today is about the most bourgeoisie organization I could think of. Looks it, sounds it, and acts it.

They may have money but I wouldn't call people like Angela Rayner or Mick Lynch members of the bourgeoisie.

Here's the dictionary definition of bourgeoisie:
(in Marxist thought) the ruling class of the two basic classes of capitalist society, consisting of capitalists, manufacturers, bankers, and other employers. The bourgeoisie owns the most important of the means of production, through which it exploits the working class

Now all those Tory grandees and supporters, people like Michael Gove and donors
www.leasinglife.com/news/jcb-links-to-secret-club-of-tory-donors/
— they really are the bourgeoisie.

Are you actually paying any attention?

What caused the carnage of last week was the mini budget. That was entirely the government's (utterly bizarre and reckless) choice. That was not an external factor foisted upon them.

Brexit has already left the UK in a more vulnerable position than it needed to be, adding in these extremely irresponsible policy decisions at a time of crisis is lunacy.

In a pile of MPs or members of course there are going to be all sorts. It's not like there have never been working class Conservative MPs.

But in terms of their constituents, the members and voters they depend on, they are incredibly middle class. And maybe not surprisingly a lot of their policies and attitudes as a party seem to be right in line with what the middle class believes and what is good for them.

I don't think they are the party of the working class now in any meaningful way. Look at the way they talk about people who have typical working class political or cultural views.

The Tories have always been the party of the rich and privileged. That's why the labour party came into being - to help the poor with progressive policies.

Yes, but sometimes the poor don't appreciate what Labour is offering them. 1979 (Thatcher elected). 2019 Tory landslide despite Corbyn offering a slate of measures designed to help the poorest. And then there was Brexit... A lot of poor people don't identify as poor.

33% of the population of any country anywhere in the world is genetically inclined to favour a very firm/ authoritarian government. It's a result of evolution when people looked at strong man leaders (Putin, Bolsenaro) to protect them. Thatcher was revered by a great many working class people. Don't forget it. Truss may, when the dust settles, turn out to be strangely popular.

She's right though. The Conservatives are down now, if there was going to be an election in the next six months that might be meaningful.

But in two years things may look totally different. I think the CP is at a disadvantage no matter what simply because of being in power for so long, but the political landscape could look totally different by then.

I wasn’t talking about the tories. This thread is about Labour. As a working class, poor, biological woman they do not represent me. Tories are a whole other matter.

Look at the definition of bourgeoisie, which is the word in question. It refers to a specific class. Not many Labour MPs qualify. Lots of Tory MPs do. I agree with you about Labour having a middle class view of the working class: that's their problem. But bourgeoisie they ain't.

I wouldn't make the error of assuming authoritarian is the same as right wing. It's really not.

It will take a lot to forgive them for trying to overturn the Brexit vote. They need to show that they respect the working class and their decisions.

We had a Labour canvasser call at our house for the first time in decades last month. They seemed to suggest that they were prepared to listen. I’m tempted to give them a chance so I filled in the form they left but so far they haven’t got back to me.

They need to start by being honest. They do know what a woman is and they need to be brave enough to state this simple truth.

Then they need a vision which isn’t ‘we are better than the other lot’. That was literally what the previous canvasser said to me years ago last time they bothered to knock.

I don’t have faith in Keir Starmer and I don’t have faith that Labour are able to make anything of themselves even though they couldn’t have prayed for a better opportunity. I would be willing to give them a chance if they stepped up though.

The public sector should exist to serve the tax-paying public.

But the public sector workers pay taxes too, so are part of the tax-paying public. As do those on benefits, because most of the tax take doesn't come from your's or mine or someone earning a million plus's income tax, it comes from a myriad of taxes that we all pay, like VAT.

As someone who works in the public sector I have the opposite problem - I struggle to understand what motivates someone to vote tory. Two tory beliefs as Rory stewart has explained I can sort of get behind a) a belief in balancing the books and b) local decision-making .

But many comments on here are based on really lazy mythologies which do tories no favours. People in the public sector are often left leaning because they experience daily the untruth of these ideas. 1. You don't have your big house just because you 'grafted for it' - you were likely gifted by some luck either of job opportunity or family wealth or economic circumstances. 2. Benefits are not a lifestyle choice and many claimants are actually working anyway 3. You are not more hard working than, or more deserving than those on a lower income than you.

I work mainly with refugees. I see some of the most brilliant, talented, determined people come here and have to start from the absolute bottom. So much is down to life luck and we need to give everyone access to a basic decent standard of living.

I have 2 DC at private school, Labour will put VAT on the fees, which means I’ll have to take them out, probably whilst DS is mid GCSE’s. They won’t get my vote whilst DC are still at school.