Nurses taking Strike Action

[shmiz]

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

[Octomore]

@PeekAtYou

It's easy for me to support nurses as my family and I are in good health and not waiting for an operation. I think most people think that nurses should be paid more but I think that it is understandable if people were angry about delayed treatment too.

The biggest factor causing the high waiting times right now is the fact that the NHS has been run into the ground making staff leave in droves. The NHS has massive numbers of vacancies because no-one is prepared to do those jobs. You can blame the government and years of real-terms pay cuts for that.

One day of strikes will be a drop in the ocean compared to the devastation that this government has caused. And yet people vote for the government but get angry at the nurses.

[EL8888]

@BigWoollyJumpers the problem is nurses haven’t been been paid properly for over a decade now. If the government had done some fair pay deals, then it wouldn’t have accumulated so much

[TabithaTittlemouse]

@Hbh17

Nobody who works in a job providing a service to the public should ever take strike action. I left my public sector union many years ago because they wanted us to strike.

Why?

[Bestcatmum]

I absolutely do not support strike action. I've worked in the NHS for more than 40 years and have another 7 to go.
You know when you come into this profession that you don't strike and put your patients at risk.
If you are not happy with the pay and conditions then go and work somewhere else, private healthcare or medical insurance. There are plenty of other jobs available as I found out when I took two years off after an injury. I was inundated with work.
Campaigning is fine, striking is not.
There is no way I'll ever be joining a picket line.

[Octomore]

@Hbh17

Nobody who works in a job providing a service to the public should ever take strike action. I left my public sector union many years ago because they wanted us to strike.

So the public sector employees should have no way of ever protesting their conditions? How do you think entitlement to holidays, H&S in the workplace, entitlement to pension etc were won? It wasn't employers or the government doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

You're happy to benefit from the wins of those who went before you, but not prepared to fight for the rights of your colleagues and those who will come after. It's not a good look at all.

[Flapjacker48]

@BigWoollyJumpers But the lack of staff is one of the main reasons for the overwork/stress. If nursing is not seem as a rewarding (personally and financially) career then you simply get young people having no interest in it. Hence the shortages etc. There are 10s of thousands of nursing NHS vacancies, on top of 10s thousands of other important NHS jobs, and no they are not all for "diversity specialists" as tabloid papers would have you believe.

[Flapjacker48]

@Bestcatmum Bully for you I bet you are band 8 aren't you?

[IheartNiles]

@Bestcatmum

I absolutely do not support strike action. I've worked in the NHS for more than 40 years and have another 7 to go.
You know when you come into this profession that you don't strike and put your patients at risk.
If you are not happy with the pay and conditions then go and work somewhere else, private healthcare or medical insurance. There are plenty of other jobs available as I found out when I took two years off after an injury. I was inundated with work.
Campaigning is fine, striking is not.
There is no way I'll ever be joining a picket line.

So have I and I feel the complete opposite to you.

if we don’t improve pay and conditions (and quickly) we’ll have no nurses left. That is not a safe environment in which to be a patient. The government have been given many opportunities to improve nurses pay over the last decade and refuse to do so because they know nurses are generally a pushover. I am hoping that is no longer the case. The government will be forced to cave very quickly on this issue as healthcare cannot run without nurses.

[dottiedodah]

I think they will have support from many of us.I have been very unwell a few years back and was treated by such kindness and compassion.My friend is a
nurse and she works very hard and is a SP to boot!

[Stopyourhavering64]

I've worked as a nurse in the NHS for 35 years and plan to retire in 2 years as I can't go on, physically or mentally
much as it aggrieves me, I'll be striking I'm currently not in a patient facing role - for the sake of my colleagues who deserve better pay and conditions, it saddens me to see how undervalued we now seem to be as a profession and how our pay has been undermined throughout successive governments
40,000 nurses have left the profession recently and many of my cohort will be retiring in the next couple of years . I also know so many newly qualified nurses who are also considering changing careers or moving abroad to work
My ds is a recent graduate and he earns more than me as a specialist nurse!

[Nightnurse123]

@KangarooKenny

Try being a nurse in the private sector. I didn’t get a pay rise.

It’s not a race to the bottom.

[Nightnurse123]

@Dotjones

I read this morning they START on 27K!!!!! That's way more than what many people earn. I also think their demands are unreasonable because they want above inflation payrises, which will be paid for by people like me who earn less than they do and get payrises that are significantly less than inflation.

We have to make life and death decisions in really stressful circumstances. We have to constantly study in our own time to keep up to date for the safety of our patients. Many of us work shifts so finding childcare is even more difficult than if we worked regular 9-5 jobs.

I pay for my own car parking, registration fees and union/indemnity insurance. We often have to pay for own study. I am lucky that I am not newly qualified but those nurses on £27k will have to pay their student loans back for years and years.

[BigWoollyJumpers]

@Flapjacker48

@BigWoollyJumpers But the lack of staff is one of the main reasons for the overwork/stress. If nursing is not seem as a rewarding (personally and financially) career then you simply get young people having no interest in it. Hence the shortages etc. There are 10s of thousands of nursing NHS vacancies, on top of 10s thousands of other important NHS jobs, and no they are not all for "diversity specialists" as tabloid papers would have you believe.

Absolutely I agree with you. As you say, reward is not just pay, good old Maslow comes out right again. Pay is only a part of the problem. Nursing training places are massively oversubscribed, so it's not about lack of interest.

Nursing is a worldwide shortage occupation, every country in the EU is short of nurses. It's another global problem. I don't think there is an easy answer.

[Wishyouwerehere30]

@Dotjones

I read this morning they START on 27K!!!!! That's way more than what many people earn. I also think their demands are unreasonable because they want above inflation payrises, which will be paid for by people like me who earn less than they do and get payrises that are significantly less than inflation.

Presumably you have never been exposed to the realities of ICU/A/E? Shocking attitude.

[spacexdragon]

@Bestcatmum

I absolutely do not support strike action. I've worked in the NHS for more than 40 years and have another 7 to go.
You know when you come into this profession that you don't strike and put your patients at risk.
If you are not happy with the pay and conditions then go and work somewhere else, private healthcare or medical insurance. There are plenty of other jobs available as I found out when I took two years off after an injury. I was inundated with work.
Campaigning is fine, striking is not.
There is no way I'll ever be joining a picket line.

interesting.
so what is the alternative then, Florence? Just put my patients at risk anyway because I'm doing the work of 2/3 people and something is missed or an error made? Instead of going to the picket line and making the public understand that we've been working under strike conditions for years, and for what?
I am not satisfied giving my patients sub-par treatment because I physically cannot do the work of 3. Our line of work isn't something that can be caught up on at a later date, it is imminent, complex and clinically challenging. Giving us fair pay will at least make the difficulties and complexities of modern nursing seem as though we are being fairly compensated for our skills, and will retain staff in post.

[MadeForThis]

100% support the strike.

[Nightnurse123]

@BigWoollyJumpers

Absolutely I agree with you. As you say, reward is not just pay, good old Maslow comes out right again. Pay is only a part of the problem. Nursing training places are massively oversubscribed, so it's not about lack of interest.

Nursing is a worldwide shortage occupation, every country in the EU is short of nurses. It's another global problem. I don't think there is an easy answer.

Maslow’s good old hierarchy of needs.

On the average shift, nurses don’t even get their bottom level realised.

The best way to think about the situation is like the aeroplane emergency oxygen masks. Put on yours before trying to help other people.

[RonaLisa]

@Hbh17

Nobody who works in a job providing a service to the public should ever take strike action. I left my public sector union many years ago because they wanted us to strike.

You have said what I was trying to say, but much better!

[EL8888]

@Strawberrypudding not sure why they bothered asking someone about nursing in the 60’s, it’s totally different now. Over time then nurses have done more and more things that doctors used to do e.g. prescribing. At the weekend often there are no doctors on site. You have to cajole the duty doctor to come, they come briefly then leave as soon as they can

[EL8888]

@Flapjacker48 thanks for the heads up

[Backtobed13]

Sorry this is long! Got a bit carried away 🤭

I qualified in 2017 and went straight into community nursing. Starting out, I was nervous but super keen to finally be out there in the field after 3 long years of study and intensive placements. As students, we were often treated as unpaid ward skivvies and bullied by our mentors. Unable to speak up for fear of not having our placement log books and reflections signed off by the mentor. In our theory lessons we had it drummed in to us to advocate for our patients and challenge bad practice, and not be afraid to whistle-blow. Yet in practice this was actively discouraged by ward staff who, if you spoke up as a student, you were seen as a trouble maker and above your station so to speak. So already before qualifying you are demoralised by the toxic culture that is endemic in the NHS. Not a good start. Then you get your first job as a newly qualified and are thrown in at the deep end with no transition period, little support and older, more experienced nurses bullying you almost in an attempt to make you as bitter and jaded as them and have the enthusiasm and passion for nursing beaten out of you. I took a job in district nursing partly to get away from the toxicity on the wards, but I soon realised that no matter the area of nursing, the culture of nurses 'eating their young' is so deeply entrenched that you almost feel you are going through some sort of warped initiation period as a new nurse who has to prove how tough you are. I had more experienced colleagues loading me up with lists of housebound patients to see that were simply unmanageable ; often I had 20 or more patients on my list to see in an 8 hour day. I started having little bumps in the car because I was rushing like a maniac trying to get to everyone. Factor in documentation between patients and travel time, plus needing to go back to the office for any meetings or supplies, it was completely overwhelming. And in all of this having the pressure of never making a mistake and ensuring patient safety and quality of care.
I used to go home and breakdown in tears with sheer exhaustion. I started to become consumed by work and felt sick to my stomach when having to open my laptop of an evening to check my list for the next day. It started impacting on my home life and my health ; to the point that after 2.5 years of this I had what I can only describe as a complete breakdown. I haven't been able to work as a nurse since. I feel I have changed as a person and I look back on my days before entering nursing and realise how bubbly and alive I used to be. Now I am broken. I'm not saying my health problems are completely attributable to nursing, but let's just say it was the predominant catalyst. They took advantage of me as a new nurse , and other newbies, whilst sitting in the office laughing and joking and drinking tea. They didn't even come to support me when I arrived at a patients house to find his dead body on the floor, 3 weeks into starting the job. One of my lovely colleagues who was only a year qualified was the only one to come and she said the office was full of the experienced ones joking around. No one thought to respond.
Now, I am not saying every single nurse is so horrible. Please don't be mistaken. There are some lovely, caring and supportive individuals in the profession but they are the ones who are taken advantage of and ultimately end up completely burnt out, either leaving or ending up on long term sick leave. Some may think I was just unlucky, and it is not like that everywhere, but all my nursing friends have experienced bullying and toxic working conditions.
You see the problem is not really the pay. Whilst there is no doubt that nurses deserve a higher wage to reflect their level of training, skills, level of responsibility, and the demands of the job, it is still a reasonable salary to start on and this is why many are often conflicted about leaving because the benefits are good in comparison to the private sector. Although I have been out of practice for 2 years, my registration is still live and I will most likely end up returning because there are no jobs out there that don't require further higher education that pay just as well. I can't afford to retrain and go back to uni as I have a son to support as a single parent, otherwise I would. So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
In my opinion the real issue is the working conditions. Not only the culture, but how can a nurse provide safe and effective care when they are working 13 hour shifts with 30 mins mins for lunch and two 15 min breaks? Unpaid breaks bear in mind. Looking after a bay of 8 unwell patients with increasingly complex needs. Or out in the community handling unmanageable caseloads,where the ageing population is increasing and more complex care is being undertaken in patients homes. It is just not sustainable to work at that level for any length of time without burning out.
If the NHS is to survive, staff need to be the number one priority. Without healthy, happy, satisfied staff how can the system function safely and effectively? And just like another poster said, relying on the altruism of health professionals to continue delivering despite all they are up against is no longer an option. Things are out of control in the NHS. Something drastic needs to change. Striking is probably not the answer, and for most nurses it goes completely against their values of prioritising patients, but the government need to realise that the NHS can not be propped up by relying on the goodwill of it's staff.

[maiafawnly]

@rivermanblows
Why are you doing minimum 48 hours a week as a student? You know that’s not a requirement right? It’s 13 x 12 hr shifts a month, not 16

Lol! Im a student and do 48 hour weeks unpaid in blocks of 6 weeks, 4 times an academic year. We need 2300 hours over 3 years to qualify. 36 hours a month isnt going to get us even close to that. And I can assure you students are working just as hard as the qualified staff. Oh, and ill have £70k of debt by the end of it. Yes. We do it for the love of the job, but that doesn't mean we should be shafted in pay rises. £27000 starting wage take home isn't that great now they increased pension contributions (which isn't worth what it used to be wort either Nhs pensions are no longer great) a lot have found their take home pay has actually reduced not increased following the £1400 uplift.

[shmiz]

@Backtobed13

Sorry this is long! Got a bit carried away 🤭

I qualified in 2017 and went straight into community nursing. Starting out, I was nervous but super keen to finally be out there in the field after 3 long years of study and intensive placements. As students, we were often treated as unpaid ward skivvies and bullied by our mentors. Unable to speak up for fear of not having our placement log books and reflections signed off by the mentor. In our theory lessons we had it drummed in to us to advocate for our patients and challenge bad practice, and not be afraid to whistle-blow. Yet in practice this was actively discouraged by ward staff who, if you spoke up as a student, you were seen as a trouble maker and above your station so to speak. So already before qualifying you are demoralised by the toxic culture that is endemic in the NHS. Not a good start. Then you get your first job as a newly qualified and are thrown in at the deep end with no transition period, little support and older, more experienced nurses bullying you almost in an attempt to make you as bitter and jaded as them and have the enthusiasm and passion for nursing beaten out of you. I took a job in district nursing partly to get away from the toxicity on the wards, but I soon realised that no matter the area of nursing, the culture of nurses 'eating their young' is so deeply entrenched that you almost feel you are going through some sort of warped initiation period as a new nurse who has to prove how tough you are. I had more experienced colleagues loading me up with lists of housebound patients to see that were simply unmanageable ; often I had 20 or more patients on my list to see in an 8 hour day. I started having little bumps in the car because I was rushing like a maniac trying to get to everyone. Factor in documentation between patients and travel time, plus needing to go back to the office for any meetings or supplies, it was completely overwhelming. And in all of this having the pressure of never making a mistake and ensuring patient safety and quality of care.
I used to go home and breakdown in tears with sheer exhaustion. I started to become consumed by work and felt sick to my stomach when having to open my laptop of an evening to check my list for the next day. It started impacting on my home life and my health ; to the point that after 2.5 years of this I had what I can only describe as a complete breakdown. I haven't been able to work as a nurse since. I feel I have changed as a person and I look back on my days before entering nursing and realise how bubbly and alive I used to be. Now I am broken. I'm not saying my health problems are completely attributable to nursing, but let's just say it was the predominant catalyst. They took advantage of me as a new nurse , and other newbies, whilst sitting in the office laughing and joking and drinking tea. They didn't even come to support me when I arrived at a patients house to find his dead body on the floor, 3 weeks into starting the job. One of my lovely colleagues who was only a year qualified was the only one to come and she said the office was full of the experienced ones joking around. No one thought to respond.
Now, I am not saying every single nurse is so horrible. Please don't be mistaken. There are some lovely, caring and supportive individuals in the profession but they are the ones who are taken advantage of and ultimately end up completely burnt out, either leaving or ending up on long term sick leave. Some may think I was just unlucky, and it is not like that everywhere, but all my nursing friends have experienced bullying and toxic working conditions.
You see the problem is not really the pay. Whilst there is no doubt that nurses deserve a higher wage to reflect their level of training, skills, level of responsibility, and the demands of the job, it is still a reasonable salary to start on and this is why many are often conflicted about leaving because the benefits are good in comparison to the private sector. Although I have been out of practice for 2 years, my registration is still live and I will most likely end up returning because there are no jobs out there that don't require further higher education that pay just as well. I can't afford to retrain and go back to uni as I have a son to support as a single parent, otherwise I would. So I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
In my opinion the real issue is the working conditions. Not only the culture, but how can a nurse provide safe and effective care when they are working 13 hour shifts with 30 mins mins for lunch and two 15 min breaks? Unpaid breaks bear in mind. Looking after a bay of 8 unwell patients with increasingly complex needs. Or out in the community handling unmanageable caseloads,where the ageing population is increasing and more complex care is being undertaken in patients homes. It is just not sustainable to work at that level for any length of time without burning out.
If the NHS is to survive, staff need to be the number one priority. Without healthy, happy, satisfied staff how can the system function safely and effectively? And just like another poster said, relying on the altruism of health professionals to continue delivering despite all they are up against is no longer an option. Things are out of control in the NHS. Something drastic needs to change. Striking is probably not the answer, and for most nurses it goes completely against their values of prioritising patients, but the government need to realise that the NHS can not be propped up by relying on the goodwill of it's staff.

Fantastic post -
it reminded me that I am a long term antidepressant taker -
it helps me cope with my nursing job !!!
the irony 😩😩

[balalake]

If emergency cover is maintained, and that for people already inpatients in hospitals, I think the public will be supportive. The ambulance driver strike in the 1990s had widespread support.

[NicolaSixSix]

@Dotjones

I read this morning they START on 27K!!!!! That's way more than what many people earn. I also think their demands are unreasonable because they want above inflation payrises, which will be paid for by people like me who earn less than they do and get payrises that are significantly less than inflation.

I can’t believe I have to say this twice in as many days.

when was the last time you:
put a dead person in a body bag
dealt with people at their most vulnerable
saw someone die
had to deal with safeguarding issues such as family members abusing the patient (physical, sexual, emotional abuse)
had to deal with people terrified of losing their loved ones/their pain as they lose loved ones
had to hold the possibility, hundreds of times a week, of making a simple mistake in your job that could kill someone (eg drawing decilitres of a medication when it should be millilitres, assessing something as not needing immediate attention but being wrong)

and on, and on, and on