Nurses taking Strike Action

What happens to his patients when he goes home to sleep? On his days off? On bank holidays he doesn't work? He is aware that a nursing strike means that there is a service equivalent to BH continuing on strike day and everyone doesn't just leave the patients to their own devices?!

An honourable as he maybe, he has a very shortsighted view. He is not there 24/7 propping up the service and nor will he be there forever. If nurses join forces and act on behalf of the whole workforce, it will help address the underlying issues with staff retention which will have a much bigger effect on the service as a whole

Just to point out many many nurses have left the Nhs to go agency nursing. Every ward I have been to as student and bank ha has had agency nurses on shift almost every night. Hospitals pay the agency, who in turn pay their staff £35-60 an hour depending on shift times and experience. Way more than NHS employees earn at the same banding. If they paid their staff more, not agency levels but more overall, ultimately they would save money and retain staff. They would have nurses on wards consistently who know the patients and areas instead of agency coming into a speciality they may not have experience of and whilst they are able to do basic nursing tasks, it leaves more work for permanent staff having to also pick up the work the agency staff are not skilled in.

I'm really opposed to strike action in general. I find it counterproductive and ultimately can lead to a loss of jobs in some instances, or worse in this instance a potential for loss of life and limb.

What strikes me from these posts is that the issue isn't pay its working conditions that are the problem. The endemic bullying (and I've witnessed it as a patient before), the lack of respect for breaks, the chronic staff shortages, the increase in work load due to the challenges and changes that have come through modern medicine. I'm not sure what strike action can do to resolve bullying.

i think what might help is if the public expect and use LESS of our health and social care services. Yes we pay for them. Yes they are free at the point of use. But we as the public could help by attending our appointments on time, practicing self care, looking out for family and neighbours, buying bits of kit like walking sticks and those seats you get on the toilet or handles for our bathroom walls. Free up the time so those who most need it get the care they require.

Patients are having their needs neglected day in day out because of lack of staff. Your Dh needs to acknowledge that, and realise that in order to attract staff, and therefore make hospitals safer, the job needs to be more attractive.
Demanding better pay in order to staff hospitals better is one way of being an advocate for patients. Because patients deserve well staffed hospitals with content and motivated nurses.

@Signeduptosimplyreplytothis

Whilst I can see the sentiment that's doesn't solve anything. When you have 2 nurses on a 28 bed emergency surgery ward with half needing 2/3 turns, everyone on IVs with at least 25% needing a new cannula on a given day, everyone needing pain relief, everyone needing regular obs everyone needing daily bloods, 7 or 8 different consultants you u have to chase for reviews, discharge letters, take home medications, people needing packages of care, physio/OH/salt input, people needing district nurse referrals or follow up appointments etc etc etc. Nurses not being able to take a break cos they can't leave one nurse on the ward, nurses staying an hour + late to complete care plans as they haven't had chance to sit and write about 14 patients during their shift. Then getting home at 9pm and having to be back on shift raring to go at 6.45am the next day for handover of 14 patients again. People buying their own walking sticks is going to have zero effect.

Not forgetting 3x drugs round that can take an hour each, dressing changes, wound checks, suture/vlip removals, patients on feeds, drain checks, drain removals, Ng inserting, catheters inserting, education of feeds, flushes, helping patients with new stomas or other life changing procedures, heaven forbid a patient gets poorly and requires more of your time and the 13 other patients have to sit and wait for all of the above and more I haven't mentioned

It's unsustainable. This recent insulting £1400 pay uplift is the straw that broke the camels back after going through covid. That I still cannot put into words what we experienced through that pandemic, watching people die because of impossible decisions being made over who gets the last cpap or ventilator available. They pay isn't the biggest issue, but it's one we can fight.

Then what is the solution? Paying existing staff more won't fix that. Not when you've got students and recent graduates on here saying the issue of retention is a cultural one. It's a really really shit situation you're in. I don't envy you one bit but throwing money at a problem needs to be done constructively

I wonder what this will mean for those nurses on AFC payscales. Does this mean that potentially if you are a B5 nurse working in a team with a B5 social worker where you are both classed as practitioners that they would get different salaries for the same job?
whet about those nurses that have worked their way to B8 a/b/c does this apply to them too even though they’re not front line?

More money would stop people leaving to go agency, so so many amazing nurses have gone to aesthetics where they can make decent money. It wouldn't solve the problems no, but it would be a start and also draw more people into training. I know healthcare who would make amazing nurses, their knowledge and ability is already there, but you hear all the time “i wouldn't take on that responsibility and 3 years at uni for £2.50 more an hour”. Make nursing more appealing to those staff and we would go some way to making effective changes.

Will more money do that though? Truly?

I've worked in places with similar levels of toxicity and they could have paid me the CEOs salary and id not have stayed. As a previous poster did, I left to preserve my mental wellbeing

It has to be the starting point though, nhs food banks for nurses is going back to a by gone age.

Though tbh, food banks for anyone in FT work, is a disgrace.

More money will 100% help retain some staff and draw established hca’s into doing their training. Not enough to fix issues, but it's a start

Culturally it needs to be addressed trust to trust. I've found in my trust there's only a handful of wards that are culturally negative and have bullying issues. The vast majority of wards I have been to and worked on have staff that care, help each other, go out of their way to ensure students and young nurses are in an environment where learning as growing is supported and encouraged. I've come across nurses who are burned out and frustrated at the system, and having a student doesn't help when they have so much work that teaching becomes less important. But overall my experience of negativity and bullying has been very minimal and I have worked in hospital ward based roles for a decade.

RonaLisa

major flaw in your plan to stop paying towards NHSand take your contribution to pay private peoviders

look at the numbers

GP paid about £150 per patient per year unlimited access

how much is it to see private GP once? A private consultant once?

yes it will cost you multiple times that

Total support from my household. There are always going to be scabs that claim that strikes 'won't achieve anything' or blame workers for putting 'people at risk' or for 'bullying each other' 🙄or patients for being too needy.

I imagine they are the same kind of people who suggest that people going cold and hungry this winter are wasting their money on fancy coffee or should buy a new kettle.

The ONLY thing that achieves any improvement for working people is collective bargaining. I can't believe that nurses were expected to work through the pandemic in those appalling conditions and are now told to suck it up whilst parasitic profiteers have got away with millions.

TBH if I was working triage I'd ask who the patient voted for and treat them accordingly.

To the posters talking about the 27k starting salary as if we should be grateful… last week I nursed a baby in intensive care, over a 12.5 hour shift her health deteriorated and she died. During that shift I supported her parents through the worst time of their lives. I kept that little baby as comfortable as I could as we withdrew treatment. I took clay imprints of her tiny feet for her parents to keep. I dressed her after she had passed. I put her into the fridge in the mortuary. I have been having nightmares every night since. But hey, at least I had a starting salary of £27k!

I am so sorry. I hope you had a good debrief and support from your seniors. All deaths are hard but the babies and children really do stay with you. Take care

Also you sound like an amazing nurse and I hope you take comfort in knowing you made an awful unbearable situation a smidge easier for the parents

@Putonyourshoes 💐 just know that your care and compassion will have meant so much to that little ones' family. I hope your team supported you well - remember to look after yourself too. Non-MN hug.

How is that anything to do with NHS nurses?

Can you provide evidence of the ONS figures? The average salary generally quoted is way below £38k. And you're also comparing a STARTING salary to an AVERAGE salary. You don't start at an average salary in any field, you start at the bottom. If you want to compare starting salaries, you'll be looking at levels considerably below £27k in many, many sectors. I believe that the average salary for a nurse is actually higher than the average salary for all roles. (And then when you add in the huge pension NHS staff get, the overall package is massively above average).

Had an email today, unison are balloting on the 27th october

I absolutely support the nurses - the bursary to train needs to brought back too! Nurses pay for their degree but unlike other students they work for the NHS for free for those three years . In theory they are supernumerary but the reality in hospitals today mean that they absolutely work alongside trained staff on top of managing a very demanding course !

Other jobs are available if they don’t like It

The one decent bargaining chip that workers have in this country is their ability to cause disruption. They don't do so lightly. I stand with our nurses.