Nurses taking Strike Action

[shmiz]

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

The trusts’ role is to deliver high quality patient care.

They fail in that role every day that the wards remain understaffed.

safe patient care is not happening right now! Anyone with any awareness ( so not Friedduck) knows that. If the strike is successful in its achievements, I assume the trusts are looking forward to retaining staff, recruiting new staff, and spending less overall as not reliant on agency staff. This will lead to better patient care, experience and outcomes.
Go, nurses!
hope the BMA could follow suit for doctors’ strike please, and all healthcare professionals!

and spending less overall as not reliant on agency staff

I would love to find figures, I can't, on the actual cost per hour for NHS nurses v. agency nurses. Talking cost here, not salary. So once you add the pension, holiday pay, sick pay, employer NI, what is the difference between recruiting an agency nurse v. a directly employed nurse. I suspect the difference isn't huge. Might even be cheaper?

This is is just for interest though, as a directly employed NHS employed nurse would always be preferable for so many reasons.

Also can someone confirm whether directly employed NHS nurses also do agency work? No judgement, just interested as to why.

A lot of nurses do agency or work extra on their own trust bank. most trusts offer the shift to bank staff first before putting it out to the agency if it cant be filled. So the nurses will usually register with the hospital bank and also a couple of external agencies if they are needing to work extra
The unit I worked on was so short-staffed that 8 of its beds were almost permanently closed and there would be on average 5 bank/agency staff per shift. (highly specialised and complex nursing so not easy to recruit)

When I work Bank my take home pay is lower than my substantive wage. I just do it to help out my colleagues, there is no great benefit to me.

I'm an ED nurse. At top of band 5 I earn about £16 per hour. As an agency nurse in ED I can earn up to £42 per hr depending on the shift, for the same job. Yes, when I need extra money I do agency work, outside my own trust. Who wouldn't?

Bank and agency is taxed as a second job, so generally as basic rate - agency pays more so much more worth working

Interestingly latest figures from this current ucas cycle is that nursing and midwifery applications are down 40% compared to this point last year (and previous years). I suspect a combination of deciding the wage is no longer worth it as it’s got effectively less over the last few years and people not being able to afford to train during a cost of living crisis.

Applications from mature students are disproportionately affected, dropped off a Cliff.

This is not going to help the nhs staffing crisis.

Interesting stats and not a surprise.
do people want no staff?

Govt wants no staff - its the only conclusion.

Low pay & remove the bursary.

Labour are missing an opening goal.

Im interviewing for 0923 intake at the minute and we have far fewer applicants than at this point in previous years

Government want no staff is the only conclusion😞

interviewing for 0923 intake at the minute and we have far fewer applicants than at this point in previous years

yes certainly looks like it’s a nationwide issue. And last year they’d dropped 8% nationally. So 40% this year on top of last year is bad.

True but would be achieved by no staff? My brother in law had an operation privately (because he couldn’t wait in pain any longer) and the private hospital was also very short staffed, so not just the NHS. Are the tories Just incompetent or do they want to grind the population down until we are a bunch of grovelling serfs, who are grateful for any titbit tossed off their table?

My belief is they want a system where the NHS costs far far less, with the onus put on the population with health insurance & the charity, the state providing emergency care only, NHS moving into the private sector.

The model being dentistry, we are now putting up with very expensive ins/treatments and for those without, its DIY and/or AE/Emergency treatments.

The problem they have is the population don't want any of this, so its done little by little, keep the majority on side.

Can't be incompetence, the removal of the bursary was a well thought out action, as was offering 1% after the pandemic, deliberate insult.

walkingonsunshinekat

totally agree, it’s deliberate

@walkinginsunshinekat yep you hit the nail on the head, this is precisely the plan as far as I can see.

Surely as a top of band 5 earning nearly £17 an hr, you'd earn up to £27 an hr depending on the shift, for the same job. Perhaps if more nurses actually did their work for the NHS, then the NHS would have more money to pay them as they wouldn't be paying agency wages? You're literally bleeding the coffers dry rather than working for your own employer 😢

Sorry what?
I personally am 'bleeding the coffers dry' by occasionally working extra shifts, over and above my contracted hours in my permanent post, for a different trust?

Shifts that would otherwise be uncovered?

If I work for staff bank I get my own hourly rate - am not in England, so it is not "nearly £17" per hour and I don't know where you are randomly getting £27 from.

Gettaefuck

Bollocks. If the NHS paid a decent wage, they would be well staffed. As a result, there would be absolutely no need to offer the shift out to an agency and offer ever increasing amounts to fill the gap because no one considers it worthwhile for a measly £17/hr given the extent of stress and abuse they encounter.

The ONLY solution to the problem (if we don’t want a private healthcare system) is to offer fair pay for the job done. Market forces determine if a wage is worthwhile for the individuals and right now, they’re telling us it isn’t even close.

As @walkinginsunshinekat has pointed out, the governments aim is to privatise the system and do this by turning everyone against each other. They’re succeeding if this post is anything to go by.

Prescribingmum is spot on
give the HCPs the pay rise they deserve and need, and there would be far less use of agency staff.
the money is already being spent on staffing the service, why not make it good enough for people to want to do permanent roles.

this could be sorted quickly and would lead to better patient care and outcomes. But the government don’t want that

Other thing public should know is that the agency themselves take at least 20% on top of the rate given to the staff member to do the shift. They’re the ones who are raking it in and getting full advantage of the dire staffing rates.

The nearly £17 an hour is the hourly wage for a salary of £32,934, and the "random" £27 is the £17 an hour with the Sunday shift uplift - like the random £42 an hour you quoted for "some shifts" - assuming these are the unsocial hours shifts.

If NHS staff worked on Sundays at £27 an hour instead of going to agencies to work for £42, they would be paid a decent wage and the NHS wouldn't have to cover staff with higher costing agency workers. There are posts on here from workers who deliberately work part time so that they can take up agency shifts to be paid more - it seems non-sensical because if they didn't work the agency shifts there would be more money to actually pay them a decent wage.

Nurses are humans; some nurses are absolute angels who care entirely about their work and patients, some are not - it's the same with any human.

usernamealreadytaken

in theory if no one took up the agency work, there would be more money to pay for the normal job.... but in practice, that money is not on offer to boost the permanent roles. Instead there’s pay erosion of 20% for nurses, 35% for consultants.
no one is offering pay restoration, we all will have to strike for it.

the money saved by not using agency staff is not on offer to the staff to boost their normal jobs.

Goodness, so you mean nurses working a Sunday shift for an agency would get paid only slightly less if they did it direct for the NHS (but would get the pension conts), and actually they are working to line the pockets of agencies? Or do you mean the NHS pays £50 for the shift and the nurse "only" gets £42?