Nurses taking Strike Action

[shmiz]

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

Average nurses salary is £37000! That's a good wage.

I keep seeing this and really don't think it can be right.

Majority of nurses are Band 5. Each ward will have a junior sister on band 6 and a sister on band 7. There are obviously specialist roles which may be band 6 or 7. Then a very small number of nurses get promoted to management - so will hold positions like director of nursing.

But the top of Band 5 is 32.9 k and takes 4 years to get there.

Band 5

<2 years' experience
£27,055
2-4 years
£29,180
4+ years
£32,934

You can't get promoted past band 5 unless someone leaves. Nobody says "oh you're so good and experienced we'll make you a band 6" There are limited opportunities. So most will be stuck at 32k.

If that 37 k is true then there's a lot of managers who are technically classed as nurses who are skewing the figures but won't have provided hands on care in years.

You’re absolutely right.
42% of nurses are a band 5. They cannot earn more than 32k. The “average wage of 37k” is being pushed and pushed by anyone that disagrees with the strike. To get an average like that they must be including ward managers and division leads.

To be honest I'm amazed only 42% of nurses are band 5. Like I said you only get one band 7 per ward and maybe a couple of band 6s. So what are the rest of the other 58% doing? I'll give you a clue - it isn't patient care!

Maybe the figure which is needed should be more like 90% of nurses should be band 5. You know, actually doing the job?

And I say that as someone who has worked clinically in the nhs for decades and I do appreciate the need for (some) managers, educators, specialist roles, etc. But it seems the balance is wrong.

I was speaking to my team about it and most are saying although they want to strike they can’t afford to lose the money. Our consultants are fully in support of strike action.

I’ve been trying to recruit a band 2 for over a year now and no one wants the job! It’s a lovely little role, but why would you take a job working unsocial hours, including Christmas/bank holidays when you can get the same sat at a till. There’s no incentive to work for the NHS and the rise of minimum wage is out pricing us, you can get the same if not more for doing a lot less, both mentally and physically.

I assume the numbers will include non-hospital based nurses, nurses working in GP surgeries etc. Are community nurses more likely to be higher band?

Yeah, NHS band 2 with unsocial hours etc. isn't going to be worth it for most people.

All the bands from 5 to 8 are involved in patient care on the ward my DD works at.... it was the same in another area she was in, they have too, as she said when i asked "everyone mucks in, even bed making"

A friends son, nursing, is band 7, mostly patient care/supporting less experienced/new staff.

Maybe just maybe... with better managers, more of them & a better clinical job progression program... we could get to a situation where band 6/7's aren't doing return to work sick plans.

90% of nurses to be in band 5...? what you are wanting is nurses to be be paid even less.....

90% of nurses to be in band 5...? what you are wanting is nurses to be be paid even less

not at all. I want there to be a pay rise and better staffing because currently it’s unsafe and unsustainable which is why nurses are leaving in droves.

Band 8 nurses are absolutely not making beds and routinely delivering hands on care. I'm not saying they wouldn't help if the shit properly hit the fan, but routinely? Certainly not in my trust.

I don’t think nurses make beds any more, do they? Massive waste of their time.

My approach would be to day to the unions- ok, you can have your 18% pay rise but the consequence will be a recruitment freeze, redundancies, unpaid overtime and cuts to patient devices. There is no magic money tree.

I’m a senior manager and director at a company and we offered a 5% rise with a clear warning that anything beyond that would have to be funded by staff cuts. The offer was soon accepted.

@FriedDuck
We all know the Tories found the magic money tree when it suited them to waste billions of pounds of tax payers money, (whilst lining their own pockets). I would much rather see billions spent on giving HCPs wage rises.

@MissyB1

And we saw the impact that proposal for uncontrolled borrowing had on the economy.

There is no money for bumper pay rises in the NHS or anywhere else. Let’s not forget, the lockdown policy that was supported by the unions cost hundreds of billions in itself and is a large reason why the economy is in a mess.

Simply not true, just a few months ago, there was no talk of Austerity 2.0 ... the situation we are now in is 100% due to Truss and the Tories, she cost us over 30 billion... and whether LD was supported or not, it was a Tory policy, targeted at all.

Then there is the stupid energy policy, handing billions to the wealthiest... with no requirement to save energy.

The NHS isn't your company or any other...its a public service... the lack of staff in the NHS has a direct effect on UK GDP and productivity, 7m people waiting for treatment & billions spent on agency staff.

If we don't pay nurses etc more, it will costs us and the economy far more.

@LLionsandLambs I'm a nurse and I make beds if we are short staffed which we are most shifts, as do the clinical leads and the band 7 ward manager, and she doesn't just stay in her office, she is invariably on the ward/ in the ward office with us.

Yes this is my DD experience, wards don't have the staff to be picky.
Its one reason she never finishes on time.

Fantastic. Let's continue spending billions on last minute agency staff because someone is off sick due to exhaustion and there are no more people to call on thanks to the wonderful recruitment freeze you enforced. We will just keep increasing the hourly rate until someone accepts with a huge cut going to the agency. Brilliant way to save money

As for unpaid overtime - do you have any clue how much unpaid overtime is currently being done by NHS staff?! I'll give you a clue - there is no scope for any more, we have hit rock bottom and are currently dealing with mass resignations. So the consequence goes back to the one above - more spent on recruitment agencies and filling of last minute posts.

NHS staff are asking to be paid at the same level they were at 15 years ago, not some mass bumper payrise (which most of them damn well deserve given what they put in during the pandemic)

Literally a poster who does not have a f*ing clue about how the NHS works. If your private company does not make money, you have to answer to your shareholders. The NHS cares for the health of the nation - when they fail, the long term costs just keep increasing. There is no comparison

@FriedDuck overtime is often not paid, patient devices such as what? Most wards the patients PAY to watch the TV anyway. Why don't you cut the wages up from the top?

I agree about the agency and the amount of wards paying extra because nobody will work. You sound well fitted for your job role.

You would be lucky to get a band 6 doing this never mind anything abouve a band 6! Oh how we can dream.

I’ve seen a lot of rubbish spouted on this thread and others, but this is by FAR the worst.
Unpaid overtime?! You have no idea. We are unpaid for x2 half hour breaks a shift, we almost always work through one if not both breaks. We regularly stay late. We are already never paid for our overtime.
As for a recruitment freeze, I could honestly laugh. The NHS can’t recruit the numbers needed even if it wanted to. You are so far off the mark.

And from a so-called 'senior manager'!!

Not senior (or bright) enough to appreciate that the management of a private company cannot be extrapolated to the entire public health service which is currently on the verge of collapse🙄
Or that there are absolutely no staff to cut - NHS can't fill posts for love or money at the moment and that is costing the government millions. Not entirely sure who they are suggesting NHS give redundancies to either, certainly isn't those asking for the payrise as they are so desperately needed...

I think @FriedDuck needs to go back and have a read about NHS working conditions - a huge reason for the strike is because conditions are currently so awful. This is a result of lack of resources, restricting them further is not going to achieve anything positive

I actually laughed out loud at the 'unpaid overtime' comment.

The NHS would instantly collapse without the existing goodwill of staff. Unpaid overtime is routine.

Nurses do indeed still help to make beds, who else is going to do it? (Definitely not the medics or band 8's) 😂

House keepers and HCAs? We have both. The nurses are run ragged but with skilled work.