Page 34 | Black Monday anyone? The tories should be in jail

Upthebracket22 · 2022-09-26T05:51:16+00:00

The pound is now at its lowest point against the dollar since decimalisation in 1971 at 1.03. It’s probably going lower and the Bank of England will likely need to step in with an emergency interest rate rise today. Black Monday possibly? All because of the mini budget on Friday. The Tories should be in jail. Especially if their rich backers were shorting the pound as it appears to get rich.

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 08:04

Liz Truss was not aiming for nor expecting any kind of honeymoon, she is not a people pleaser, she has eighteen months to turn things around for her voters, with no time to worry about how her policies are going down with the lefties.

I have to say whether this pays off or not, the Labour elephant in the room is still there.

The fact is regardless of what the Conservatives do, Labour will not and indeed can not win the next election, and the reason is simple.

Socialism is a failed concept, we learnt that lesson in the 20th century. Socialism fails because it removes the human incentive to succeed and strive for better. People will never vote for this now, and this is the reason why the Labour party has so little talent, why we look at the party packed full of below average, boring and uninspiring politicians.
They trot out the same old trope without any conviction, they have zero ideas and vision and every interview I listen to on radio four is positively toe curling. They are an absolute embarrassment, and when you combine the lack of ability and capability with their track record of mismanaging the economy - I simply don't think they will ever get the votes, it would be an act of national self sabotage.

Labour need to reinvent themselves. They need a rebirth, and a reset, and I don't see that happening anytime soon, and certainly not before the next election.

LadyFromage · 27/09/2022 08:10

Each to their own (and I am definately not trying to start an argument) but I don't see the current Labour as particularly socialist and they'll have my vote next time around, which has not always been a given in the past.

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 08:20

How can you not see the Labour Party as socialist out of interest? It has always been the case since they birth of the party.

What do you think they stand for then? It seems odd that you are going to give your vote to a socialist party but you don't think of them as socialist?! 🤔

SleeplessInEngland · 27/09/2022 08:22

Liz Truss was not aiming for nor expecting any kind of honeymoon, she is not a people pleaser, she has eighteen months to turn things around for her voters, with no time to worry about how her policies are going down with the lefties.

Ah yes, those famously lefty financial markets.

SleeplessInEngland · 27/09/2022 08:24

That famously lefty pound.

SleeplessInEngland · 27/09/2022 08:24

That famously lefty Bank of England having to raise interest rates.

BirmaBrite · 27/09/2022 08:27

@Kissingfrogs25 I guess a lot depends on how the voting population fare over the next 18 months. You seem to be quite positive about the future and how the Conservatives are going to improve the lives of the vast majority of the country, I genuinely hope you are right for all our sakes.
It would be nice to get some idea of the actual plan as opposed to vague statements and mini fiscal events. Perhaps it will all become clearer at the conference ?

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 27/09/2022 08:28

That famously lefty parliamentary Conservative party.

Alexandra2001 · 27/09/2022 08:28

LadyFromage · 27/09/2022 08:10

Each to their own (and I am definately not trying to start an argument) but I don't see the current Labour as particularly socialist and they'll have my vote next time around, which has not always been a given in the past.

Under Starmer, many of the Tories booted (or forced to resign) out by Boris in 2019 would fit quite comfortably in the current Labour party, bare in mind, many of these were Thatcherite in belief and indeed, some like ken Clarke worked for her.

Anyone who thinks Labour is a socialist party doesn't follow UK or European politics and gets their news from the 'Express.

borntobequiet · 27/09/2022 08:29

Socialism is a failed concept, we learnt that lesson in the 20th century

Yet moderate social democracy has delivered good standards of living and equitable societies in many European countries, and did here under the last Labour government. (And no, Gordon Brown didn’t cause the world financial crisis in 2007/2008.)

MarshaBradyo · 27/09/2022 08:32

BirmaBrite · 27/09/2022 08:27

@Kissingfrogs25 I guess a lot depends on how the voting population fare over the next 18 months. You seem to be quite positive about the future and how the Conservatives are going to improve the lives of the vast majority of the country, I genuinely hope you are right for all our sakes.
It would be nice to get some idea of the actual plan as opposed to vague statements and mini fiscal events. Perhaps it will all become clearer at the conference ?

Me too for first para.

I feel the same re Labour that it’s going to be as good as many propose. As there’s a fairly strong chance they’ll win (atm which may change) - even if by default.

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 08:35

BirmaBrite · 27/09/2022 08:27

@Kissingfrogs25 I guess a lot depends on how the voting population fare over the next 18 months. You seem to be quite positive about the future and how the Conservatives are going to improve the lives of the vast majority of the country, I genuinely hope you are right for all our sakes.
It would be nice to get some idea of the actual plan as opposed to vague statements and mini fiscal events. Perhaps it will all become clearer at the conference ?

And yet what do we hear about Labour's master plan....radio silence and not even costed!

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 08:37

Alexandra2001 · 27/09/2022 08:28

Under Starmer, many of the Tories booted (or forced to resign) out by Boris in 2019 would fit quite comfortably in the current Labour party, bare in mind, many of these were Thatcherite in belief and indeed, some like ken Clarke worked for her.

Anyone who thinks Labour is a socialist party doesn't follow UK or European politics and gets their news from the 'Express.

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I think bear don't you?

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 08:38

borntobequiet · 27/09/2022 08:29

Socialism is a failed concept, we learnt that lesson in the 20th century

Yet moderate social democracy has delivered good standards of living and equitable societies in many European countries, and did here under the last Labour government. (And no, Gordon Brown didn’t cause the world financial crisis in 2007/2008.)

Do share actual examples of excellent models of socialist governments that have delivered a good standard of living in Europe in the last twenty years please? The last Labour governments we had here in the UK bankrupted us twice.

BirmaBrite · 27/09/2022 08:40

And yet what do we hear about Labour's master plan....radio silence and not even costed!

Well they have 18months to come up with a plan. The Government, those who are actually running the country, should have one now. And it shouldn't be on a need to know basis !

SleeplessInEngland · 27/09/2022 08:46

The disastrous polling is actually a good thing for Truss because she said she didn't mind making popular decisions, so this proves her decision-making is correct. She'll be very happy with this disastrous polling.

Qisk · 27/09/2022 08:53

I am of the opinion Labour needs to reinvent itself if it is to win. It needed to do so before. Labour needs charismatic leaders and it needs to shake off some of its old associations. It also needs to own the narrative on moving centrist. Until then the popular press narrative will always side with the Conservatives and it is the press that win elections.

Here is a sound CNN article that explains where the UK economy is within the space of one week. Inflation will remain higher than it otherwise would and with it also interest rates. My conclusion is a colossal error by Truss and Kwarteng, not a measured risk.

CNN Article

vera99 · 27/09/2022 08:57

Eeksteek · 27/09/2022 02:19

I have been thinking a lot lately about why the tories started on landlords. I mean, it’s a very Tory thing, isn’t it, owning property. Why penalise what a lot of them of are doing themselves? That not like a Tory. I though it first it was a because BTL allowed access to making money through property for too many plebs, and they wanted to keep the rich pickings for real rich people, and not the middle classes. And it was popular with voters, while not actually benefitting them in any way which is always good. I thought it was scapegoating.

I was partly right, but didn’t take it far enough. It’s because property was making too many middle class people money, and not making enough money for a few already-rich people. Who let through companies, not as individuals. It was too diversified; benefitting too many small landlords. They want it in incorporated. The rules and taxes are canted towards that. It’s much easier to reap money from a lot of people and funnel it upwards through big corporations, and we’ve seen it in every other industry. Small independents are vanishing rare in many industries now. Can’t have something as lucrative as property in too many hands.

if I wasn’t going through such tough times, I would stop spending every penny through large companies. It’s the only thing I can do to keep my money out of their grabby hands. Only I’m too broke to have the choice. I’ve always been a bit of a knit-your-own-yoghurt lefty. Pre-covid I decided to
stop, and buy things like a normal person. Everybody single thing that has happened since has made this look like a very stupid decision indeed. If I want to have basic needs, it looks like I’m going to have meet them myself. I’m going back to my solar panels, my chickens, my vegetable plot and my bees. At least we won’t starve.

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John Lewis and I think Lloyd's are going into that space as corporate landlords. There are some advantages tbh as there is an economy of scale and a fairly standardised product and if you pay your rent security of tenure compared to DIY landlords. But I'm sure they want to get the small guys out not just to enable more properties for sale on the market but can also be seen to be doing something for the rented sector. Landlords are not popular on the whole.

Kendodd · 27/09/2022 08:57

Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 08:38

Do share actual examples of excellent models of socialist governments that have delivered a good standard of living in Europe in the last twenty years please? The last Labour governments we had here in the UK bankrupted us twice.

Show quote history

Aren't living standards in the UK now 20% below our more socialist neighbours? I believe, according to the FT our poorest 20% have living standards below many eastern European countries not and its predicted that our middle class will be overtaken before the end of the century.

I don't know why the UK is such a right wing country when it works out so badly for the majority, well, I do, I can only think it's down to our right wing media.

AuntSalli · 27/09/2022 08:59

Qisk · 27/09/2022 08:53

I am of the opinion Labour needs to reinvent itself if it is to win. It needed to do so before. Labour needs charismatic leaders and it needs to shake off some of its old associations. It also needs to own the narrative on moving centrist. Until then the popular press narrative will always side with the Conservatives and it is the press that win elections.

Here is a sound CNN article that explains where the UK economy is within the space of one week. Inflation will remain higher than it otherwise would and with it also interest rates. My conclusion is a colossal error by Truss and Kwarteng, not a measured risk.

CNN Article

What a bit like new labour ?
so basically a more palatable version of the Conservative party is what you’re suggesting ?

personally I would like to see the return of a man where in a flat cap with a whippet under each arm and a racing pigeon circling above.

we need to return to the proper labour values for proper working class people and people need to be proud of been working class again.

that’s where it’s gone wrong for the Conservatives in my opinion everybody is aspiring middle class which makes middle-class meaningless and allows the upper class the 1% is to basically completely ride rough shot over them all.

if you have to work for a living you are working class I don’t care if you’re a doctor a lawyer or a candlestick maker if stopping work tomorrow would cause you financial problems you are working class. Get behind the working class parties that will work in your best interests.
The reality of that situation is about to bite for quite a lot of people when you are gonna realise you’re not quite as posh as you think you are

Alexandra2001 · 27/09/2022 09:01

Qisk · 27/09/2022 08:53

I am of the opinion Labour needs to reinvent itself if it is to win. It needed to do so before. Labour needs charismatic leaders and it needs to shake off some of its old associations. It also needs to own the narrative on moving centrist. Until then the popular press narrative will always side with the Conservatives and it is the press that win elections.

Here is a sound CNN article that explains where the UK economy is within the space of one week. Inflation will remain higher than it otherwise would and with it also interest rates. My conclusion is a colossal error by Truss and Kwarteng, not a measured risk.

CNN Article

17pts in front of the Cons... perhaps the public have had enough of charismatic leaders?

The press have been slagging off Labour/Starmer and supporting Truss, yet here we are.

Long way to go & polls are fickle but according to market "experts" unless Kwarteng is replaced and the strategy reversed, expect more and damaging market reaction but if she reverses, she is toast..... hard rock anyone ?

Good article thanks for that.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/09/2022 09:03

Labour have the biggest lead since Blair. So much for a Truss bounce😂

Kier may seem dull, but l think people want security and safety atm, and this is what he represents. A 17 point lead isn’t going to go away fast. A

Im really liking Rachel Reeves.

Notonthestairs · 27/09/2022 09:05

Thanks for that CNN article Qisk. Interesting.

MarshaBradyo · 27/09/2022 09:09

I am of the opinion Labour needs to reinvent itself if it is to win. It needed to do so before. Labour needs charismatic leaders and it needs to shake off some of its old associations. It also needs to own the narrative on moving centrist.

Starmer is pretty much doing this. He’s talking about being the centrist party and starting with a Blair quote.

It’s a bit borrowed - that and the green shift, so whilst not particularly inspiring it is a direction I prefer.

vera99 · 27/09/2022 09:10

So they sacked the 30 years of experience well-respected head of the Treasury Sir Michael Scholar (who is having a well-earned holiday in Yorkshire apparently), framed it as a mini-budget to evade OBR scrutiny, are set to borrow huge amounts of money on top of an already hugely indebted nation to fund tax cuts and have refused to answer questions at the time of the biggest financial crisis in living memory. Well done Liz+KK you must have some secret knowledge that the rest of the world doesn't either that or you're properly cracker. At least Boris didn't smash up the executive who deliver policy.

The elephant in the room of course is the toxic Brexit one whose minister for opportunities JRM didn't find any apart from putting the imperial crown on pint glasses. The rest of the world of course finds that properly crackers and the Brittania Uncahined mob have gone for a double or quits bet.

On LBC last night a house seller was in tears because the chain had broken down owing to a mortgage offer being withdrawn in the chain as a direct result of the turmoil.

But on the bright side, Liz certainly knows what a woman is... as does Kwasi