Aibu to be pissed off that vegetables and nuts aren't vegan?

[autyspauty]

I was watching a clip from QI where they said that avocados and other fruits and vegetables and nits aren't actually vegan because Bees are boxed up and sent to the farms/ orchards etc to pollinate the crops.

I can't believe it.

I'm not even vegan but I do my best to be as eco conscious as I can and there are just so many ways that even a peice of fruit is ladder with tonnes of CO2. Not only do I have to consider the moles my food has travelled to get to the warehouse/ factory to be transported to be packaged and then transported to the shops, but now I have to think about BEES being transported in lorries to pollinate the food before its even fucking grown?

You can't avoid plastic packaging on your food, you can't avoid air miles or road miles on your food but I didn't even think about the fucking road miles on the pollinators to pollinate the food.

There is a photo doing the rounds of a fruit cup picked in Thailand, packed in Venezuela and then shipped to US. Its a joke, the fruit in that cup has travelled more miles than most of the people buying it but you wouldn't even guess about the fucking Bees being shipped over to pollinate in the first place. (countries may be wrong but you get the ideA)

I like eating physalis (Cape Gooseberries) but they are grown in South America and a handful sold in plastic cost £1. I grow my own and the taste is much better. They do grow like triffids though.

Are these easy to grow? Or do you need a greenhouse?

I didn’t realise these could be grown here. They have the papery outer layer?

They're very easy to grow in the UK, if you can grow outdoor tomatoes you'll have no trouble. They are not frost hardy, and they need regular feed and watering.

I agree with growing tomatillos in the UK. I've just had a salad with tomatoes, tomatillos, lime juice and salt and it was outstanding.

They need a good metre to grow in, don't try and prune them, just let them do their thing. Gorgeous crop.

@Rummikub

I really wish I hadn’t googled that 😧

@ physalis, like triffids. These are second year plants, planted outside the greenhouse. After the first year cut right back and protect from severe frost. I did have the plants contained behind a wire fence but they broke free. It's going to be a challenge picking the fruit. I also had a stalk that had snapped off in the Spring. I stuck it in the ground and it too rooted.

Oh my word!! That does look wild!!
I was imaging a delicate plant in a pot!

@Rummikub so was I 😃. There are about 6 plants in a small space. Next year I'm going to try them in the front garden which isn't used and looks scruffy with the mossy, bumpy lawn.

😂

I wonder if they can be contained? They seem like brambles/ blackberry bushes.

I haven’t read it, so I’m it not disputing it. I just think it doesn’t go far enough. You can’t have a plant based ecosystem. You just can’t. I have a garden, I grow vegetables. But then I HAVE to add fertiliser, which is animal manure, or I can’t grow any more vegetables. So everyone can’t be vegan. A minority can, with input from other systems (and often oil derived), but not everyone. You need animal fertiliser. It’s a cycle, and animals are part of it. I’m not a professional environmentalist, but I do have a biology degree, and I’m a keen amateur, and I can’t think of a single plant only ecosystem. Not one.

There are various ways of raising animals. There are animals that live fairly natural lives and eat grass, with few additional inputs and minimal trucking about or environmental changes. And then there are intensively reared animals raised indoors on highly concentrated food, moved around a lot and with a lot of additives. They have very different footprints. You can’t lump them all in together and say that they are all as bad as the worst one.

Animals do more than just fertilise. There is lots of land that isn’t suitable for arable growing, and can’t be cleared mechanically. When calculating that we need eg 2.5 earths if everyone eats meat, but only 1 if everyone were vegan, is this land discounted? I’ve always wondered.

Also, just because you aren’t eating them, does not mean animals aren’t dying. Pest control for vegetable crops both during growth and storage is a major headache. It involves significant labour, chemical and/or plastic use. Frequently, poison, traps or guns, especially for rodents, pigeons, rabbits, foxes and squirrels. I have no idea how it compares, but if you eat beef, how many individual cattle do you eat in a lifetime? Compared to how many rabbits are shot or rats are poisoned to preserve a bean or lentil crop? It seems very naive and wrong to me assume that mass-veganism is any kind of answer here, even if it were possible.

That said, it doesn’t mean I think we should continue to eat meat the way we do now. Most of us eat far too much cheap intensively reared meat which is raised very poorly for the countryside, the planet and the individual animals. Dairy even more so. Fish even more than that. I was (before I went broke) eating much less, very local, higher quality meat and dairy, and more plants. Now I just what I can afford (which is no meat at all, save what I am gifted and anything left in the freezer, and small amounts of bog standard meat for DD. I am in no position to be choosy, sadly. If I ever am again, I will go back it). It still displaces flora and fauna, causes pollution and individual death and suffering, but the least amount I can, while remaining alive myself.

Unless you're eating your plant based food as nature intended from your own land. @ButterYourMuffin them you're full of hot air. I'm pretty sure you don't mill your own flour for muffins.

Maybe you want to take it up with the author SL Bridle @justasking111 - the book is called "Food and Climate Change without the hot air: Change your diet: the easiest way to save the planet."