Aibu to be pissed off that vegetables and nuts aren't vegan?

[autyspauty]

I was watching a clip from QI where they said that avocados and other fruits and vegetables and nits aren't actually vegan because Bees are boxed up and sent to the farms/ orchards etc to pollinate the crops.

I can't believe it.

I'm not even vegan but I do my best to be as eco conscious as I can and there are just so many ways that even a peice of fruit is ladder with tonnes of CO2. Not only do I have to consider the moles my food has travelled to get to the warehouse/ factory to be transported to be packaged and then transported to the shops, but now I have to think about BEES being transported in lorries to pollinate the food before its even fucking grown?

You can't avoid plastic packaging on your food, you can't avoid air miles or road miles on your food but I didn't even think about the fucking road miles on the pollinators to pollinate the food.

There is a photo doing the rounds of a fruit cup picked in Thailand, packed in Venezuela and then shipped to US. Its a joke, the fruit in that cup has travelled more miles than most of the people buying it but you wouldn't even guess about the fucking Bees being shipped over to pollinate in the first place. (countries may be wrong but you get the ideA)

To some extent, that depends what it is. Local beef in the midlands, where the cows graze outside etc etc is going to be better than corn fed, indoor reared cattle in the USA, not just because it hasn’t travelled, but because of the intensive way it’s reared. It isn’t a straight comparison, no matter how far it’s flown. There is also the question of land not being suitable for cultivation being grazed.

When is also going change footprint massively. A locally grown strawberry is going to have massively different footprint in July to January. Seasonally is also important. So yes, imported will be better. But not eating strawberries in January is even better than that (which is….not very complicated!)

But we’re also taking about transformation of land, and monoculture. And small producers (which by definition make up a variety environments) are going to be far more sustainable and not form the type of sterile monocultures discussed here. As usual, you can’t just consider one thing. Less meat (not none. You can’t farm like that) more local food in season and smaller producers. It won’t be be impactless - that’s not possible - it’s just the best we can do, we can’t just cease to exist!

veganism, imo, is a well meaning lifestyle choice but I don’t believe it’s sustainable or as environmentally friendly as people claim.

No it really isn't, because in order even to attempt it you have to reject all the natural interrelationships in ecosystems.

And that's always a fool's choice. I this case it typically means people making choices - like using petroleum based fertilizers or clothes as you mention - which are actually less sustainable and ultimately more destructive to live.

And what's maybe worse in the end, though it's difficult to put a value on it - it means people don't really have to come to terms with the ethical costs of their own life, which is, other lives. There is, at least ideologically, an opt-out. In reality it means other people do the dirty work.

It’s bloody hard work (not that I’ve done it to that extent, but probably more than most!)

I found out about it from a David Attenborough documentary. State of the planet I think. But it’s obvious to anyone who gardens that veganism isn’t sustainable. You need soil inputs for fertility, and vegan subs like pleather are always plastic, which you’d have to live under a rock not to know is a sustainability problem. What we need is about 90 percent fewer people really. So if you really want to make a difference, only have one child (or none), and send a lot of money to third world countries to educate and emancipate women. Will do more to conserve resources than all the pleather, Facon and avocados you can eat. Not quite so instagramable though. (Probably explains why it hasn’t caught on) And it doesn’t make any money for anyone, so no one is advertising it.

OP, yabu. Bee hives have always been moved to where they are needed for pollination, even in mediaeval Britain.

As for finding vegan food, it's not difficult, just look to your local farm shop and not to things that have been flown in from the other side of the world.

This weekend I picked peaches and figs grown completely naturally in Hampshire. I've been bottling fruit and packing hazel nuts in honey, to eat this winter, all grown in the home counties.

Lunch yesterday was a courgette and cheddar quiche. Wholemeal flour, eggs, onions, garlic, courgettes, mint all travelled less than ten miles. The cheese, butter and milk weren't vegan, but they're British. It was delicious. And easy.

Eat local and seasonal. You'll do a lot less harm.

MintJulia Eat local and seasonal. You'll do a lot less harm.

Life isn't going to be much fun for a vegan somewhere in Britain like the Shetland Islands, or even north of Fife! Certain brands of potatoes (not really north of Inverness), no wheat or barley north of Orkney I don't think, but grass and some berries can be grown? Also cabbages, onions, apples and pears, although not particularly sweet or large ones. And some oats.

Fertiliser used on crops also contains animal blood and bone from the slaughter industry, so vegans can't really eat anything, sadly.

Eating locally produced food is still more damaging re carbon footprint than plant based diet (see Food and Climate Change book for detailed analysis and actual peer reviewed research).

Also as someone who eats a plant based diet, my omnivorous DC eat (or at least would like) many more avocados than I do.

I don't mind this. It's similar to the leather argument. The animals are going to be slaughtered regardless so using the left ivers seems OK to me.

How can local food be more damaging than food shipped from xyz?

Just as an aside, me and my sister were chatting (idle not anything) and she said that rabbits mate like crazy. ehy don't we eat and farm them? Is it because they are so lean? why are chickens ok but rabbits no?

See also horse?

I've not been to Shetland so I can't say but you can get rabbit from any decent butcher.

Rabbit casserole is easy in a slow cooker. Add onions, carrots, a spoon of wholegrain mustard, some redcurrant jelly, a couple of tablespoons of stock, thyme and a little butter. Four hours later, serve with mash. Perfect autumn supper😋

Pick your battles. Nobody can take on the whole world on their own.

We eat rabbit in the winter bulks out pies, stews etc tastes like free range organic chicken. You'll find it in markets in cities. Manchester, Birmingham used to anyway. Have a Google.

We've had outbreak of heamorraghic fever in the area so very few rabbits now.

I've eaten horse meat abroad many years ago unknowingly. Bit strong and tough. Goat meat another good one to try.

Honestly we eat more fish and vegetables these days. Last night pea risotto with a bit of chorizo. Herbs and spices are underused

I've wondered this about nail salons because of how shellac is made.

Re rabbits I think bc it's seen as a 'poor' food.

People did used to farm rabbits, it mostly died out in the 1990's. Slaughtering and butchering is labour intensive compared to poultry, and the return is poor. You can't charge £18 for a rabbit even if its free range.

@autyspauty - it's to do with the emissions from animals themselves and production of animal feed. I was under the impression that local food was better too but having researched it eating plants (even those produced in other countries) is less damaging in terms of climate change.

Interesting, maybe historic association.

It's lean. plentiful (we're rural), and easy to cook. I thought it was unpopular because people associate it with their pets. I pay £6 for a prepared and jointed rabbit that feeds 2 for a main meal.

Eeksteek But we’re also taking about transformation of land, and monoculture. And small producers (which by definition make up a variety environments) are going to be far more sustainable and not form the type of sterile monocultures discussed here. As usual, you can’t just consider one thing. Less meat (not none. You can’t farm like that) more local food in season and smaller producers. It won’t be be impactless - that’s not possible - it’s just the best we can do, we can’t just cease to exist!

I absolutely agree with this, but there are no government policies to make it happen and its due to the supply chain to supermarkets, because people want cheap food of course. I live in an area of top class, valuable arable land, and the monotonous, giant sized fields stretch for miles in all directions. Its like an arable desert. Most hedgerows and footpaths have been long removed, anything that moves is shot, acres of good land are ignored because the machinery is too large to do any awkward shapes, and its all farmed by contractors who don't live where they do their work so have little concern for it. The land is pumped full of fertilisers and pesticides to grow crops all year round. There are loads of weeds due to areas of set aside so they are aggressively treated whenever they remember.

Farm shops are excellent things really but not practical for many who lack time and need to do big family shops to fit their lifestyles.

My vegan friend won't eat our vegetables because she saw a mouse trap in our barn. But she eats Weetabix and supermarket bread. It is truly remarkable that people can be so stupid.

Our hen poop from cleaning out the sheds after two years composted is amazing fertilizer.

Lunch out today was steak, bacon and venison pie in red wine sauce. It was outstanding.

this is it.
not understanding at all

? Well done?

Oh God I just read about fig and wasp mutualism. So interesting but so grim lol. No more figs for me...

I haven't eaten figs for decades because of this.