There is no ambulance service anymore

[Snog]

Twice so far this year NHS111 have told me that my dd needs paramedics to attend for severe chest and abdominal pain and that they are on their way.

Both times the ambulance service called me later and said they would not be attending that night as too busy.

I am posting this because I want people to know that there is no functional ambulance service any more.

If you need an ambulance try to take your loved one to hospital yourself instead. This could save their life.

Obviously when you get to hospital good luck with that but at least you are not waiting for an ambulance that will never come.

[ShirtingForkBalls]

Stop voting tory. Stop voting tory. Stop voting tory....

[HickoryStump]

Yesterday I was at a genuine cat 1 event where 2 ambulances turned up in 4 minutes.
Absolutely agree that the service is on its knees, it's horrific and everyone, patients and staff are being terribly let down.
Equally, instead of posting on Internet forums, every single person in the UK has the ability to access incredible first aid courses that can really help in stopping the 'oh I might make it worse/it's not my job/I don't know what I'm doing/it's been 7 hours of decision inertia and waiting around and now it's too late'.
Fully aware that first aid won't be appropriate in every case but the ambulance situation has no current hope of improving, so maybe we need to look at taking ownership of the situation and gain control over what we are completely able to do as individuals.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Actually they knew it was a broken back (not going to say more as not my story), but no it was not a misdiagnosed fall. It was the same month another neighbour was left 8 hours unable to breathe properly and the same months that the local paper reported daily on the queues outside the large teaching hospital (in the summer). The same week the ambulance service said they were not functioning as they should and people would die as a result. I am staggered that people think that is okay tbh.

This is fixable. It isn’t rocket science. Prioritise social care. Have an actual policy for it. Recognise that it has collapsed. Ring fence money for wages and put it into the system. A&E waits would reduce as well. It would relieve the pressure and give time to fix what else needs to be fixed (and aid staff retention in social care & health)

[BlooberryBiskits]

I also think people have zero concept of the costs involved in calling an ambulance out. It’s free at the point of care so people are very ignorant to it.

@MedPara : I think this is a really good point. One solution might be to make a nominal charge (eg £50) for an ambulance so that it’s isn’t abused. It would be like eg Australia where I think there is a nominal charge to see a GP

There are all kinds of problems with service not being free at point if access but I think not being able to access it at all is so much worse!

@LakieLady : ambulances cost hundreds. Like most people I’ve had tough times financially as well as easier, I would struggle to think of not being able to access £20 for a taxi in a real emergency, or to be able to ask for help for someone to drive me in an actual emergency.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Six years ago my disabled son whacked his head very hard on the floor. It was bleeding and he had a small seizure after it. We rang 111 who said they would send a paramedic for treatment. The paramedic turned up, assessed, treated and said that if it happened again to ring 111 and ask for a paramedic to be sent out to treat as it was more a more accessible way for my son to receive treatment than A&E.

i am assuming that service no longer exists. It’s relevant because people with learning disabilities have a much higher avoidable deaths rate than those without learning disabilities and die decades earlier than they should. A&E/minor injuries is not easily accessible to him.

[MedPara]

I’m trying to think in what circumstances a call taker would know a patient had broken their back. The only plausible one I can think of is this was a previously diagnosed broken back that required admission for further treatment and was not caused by an acute incident. Otherwise, there’s no way of knowing someone has broken their back unless someone in the family has X-ray eyes.

[MedPara]

@Devilishpyjamas

Six years ago my disabled son whacked his head very hard on the floor. It was bleeding and he had a small seizure after it. We rang 111 who said they would send a paramedic for treatment. The paramedic turned up, assessed, treated and said that if it happened again to ring 111 and ask for a paramedic to be sent out to treat as it was more a more accessible way for my son to receive treatment than A&E.

i am assuming that service no longer exists. It’s relevant because people with learning disabilities have a much higher avoidable deaths rate than those without learning disabilities and die decades earlier than they should. A&E/minor injuries is not easily accessible to him.

It does still exist. We treat and discharge nearly half of patients on scene.

[pickledeggnog]

@LakieLady

I think that is fair enough Ambulances are for real dire emergencies. People abuse the system when they could quite easily get the person to hospital themselves in a car or taxi

Not everyone has family/friends who can drive them or afford a taxi though. It's at least £20 to the nearest A&E by taxi from here, more if it's after a certain time in the evening, or on a Sunday. I know people who would be in real hardship if they had to fork out that sort of money.

Luckily, we have an urgent treatment centre that's open 8am-8pm, 7/7, and can deal with minor injuries, or illnesses that can't wait for a GP appt. That didn't stop my idiot neighbours from calling an ambulance when one of them fell down the stairs pissed and gashed their arm though, and the other was too pissed to drive them there. 😡

But that's not the NHS's job to cover transport when people don't have £20 for a taxi

That's a wider societal issue but not one the Ambulance service can or should fix

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

@MedPara

I’m trying to think in what circumstances a call taker would know a patient had broken their back. The only plausible one I can think of is this was a previously diagnosed broken back that required admission for further treatment and was not caused by an acute incident. Otherwise, there’s no way of knowing someone has broken their back unless someone in the family has X-ray eyes.

Unless you're the poor sod who has actually broken it. I have. And I can assure you, I knew.

[QuebecBagnet]

@MedPara

I’m trying to think in what circumstances a call taker would know a patient had broken their back. The only plausible one I can think of is this was a previously diagnosed broken back that required admission for further treatment and was not caused by an acute incident. Otherwise, there’s no way of knowing someone has broken their back unless someone in the family has X-ray eyes.

I fell a significant height, landed flat on my back, there was an audible crack from my back, heard by others in the room and obviously intense pain from my back. I knew straight away I’d broken it.

some people though will be glad to know I walked 2 miles to the hospital, walked into a&e screaming in pain (and I mean hysterically screaming) and told the receptionist I’d broken my back. She told me to take a seat but thankfully a nurse came running over and I was whisked through. 😂

[Lancrelady80]

£50 is really not a nominal sum for many people! So many people suggest what in their eyes are "nominal charges" intended to put off those who abuse services. But the problem with that is many people genuinely in need will not call for help/ask for necessary appointments.

I know if we try to ring the GP we are subjected to 5mins recorded message desperately trying to get us to go elsewhere. I don't know the 999 call handlers' script, but perhaps there should be a built in sentence asking if it's possible/recommending getting to A&E under your own steam.

[LakieLady]

It’s not really the ambulance services job to ferry people who can’t afford a taxi to hospital. That’s a wider societal issue.

I agree, in principle, but what's the alternative for someone who is absolutely on their uppers, if they have a child with a cut that needs suturing, or if they've broken a bone?

I live in a county where some people are 20 miles or more from their nearest A&E. I dread to think how much that would cost in a taxi if it's £16 to travel 8 miles to my nearest one. And we have pisspoor public transport, too.

[MedPara]

There is a cognitive bias at play here.

[MedPara]

@LakieLady

It’s not really the ambulance services job to ferry people who can’t afford a taxi to hospital. That’s a wider societal issue.

I agree, in principle, but what's the alternative for someone who is absolutely on their uppers, if they have a child with a cut that needs suturing, or if they've broken a bone?

I live in a county where some people are 20 miles or more from their nearest A&E. I dread to think how much that would cost in a taxi if it's £16 to travel 8 miles to my nearest one. And we have pisspoor public transport, too.

The alternative I guess is planning / insurance / building better community relations so you have someone to call on in emergencies / having more satellite urgent care centres in areas a certain radius from the hospital. I don’t know. 🤷‍♀️

[Lancrelady80]

We have non-existent public transport too. I wouldn't expect an ambulance if I could get someone to A&E myself, either by driving myself, asking a neighbour or getting a taxi (overdraft if need be.) Ambulances are not taxis, absolutely.

But an automatic charge would put off those who DO need an ambulance.

[LakieLady]

@MedPara

There is a cognitive bias at play here.

I work in welfare rights and financial inclusion. I know just how poor some households are, and how little disposable income they have. They are a minority, thankfully, at least in my part of the affluent south east, but it doesn't mean their problems aren't real.

If it came to a choice between calling an ambulance, rather than not being able to feed their kids for three days because the food money went on a taxi to the hospital, I think most parents would call the ambulance.

[BlippiIsAnnoying]

Agreed, mum had a stroke, 4 hours later no ambulance so I took her in the car. It's horrific.

[HamiltonFan1]

@LakieLady

It’s not really the ambulance services job to ferry people who can’t afford a taxi to hospital. That’s a wider societal issue.

I agree, in principle, but what's the alternative for someone who is absolutely on their uppers, if they have a child with a cut that needs suturing, or if they've broken a bone?

I live in a county where some people are 20 miles or more from their nearest A&E. I dread to think how much that would cost in a taxi if it's £16 to travel 8 miles to my nearest one. And we have pisspoor public transport, too.

The alternative would surely be people taking responsibility for their own lives and making plans to not end up in a situation where you can't even spend £20 to get your child to hospital

[MedPara]

@LakieLady

I work in welfare rights and financial inclusion. I know just how poor some households are, and how little disposable income they have. They are a minority, thankfully, at least in my part of the affluent south east, but it doesn't mean their problems aren't real.

If it came to a choice between calling an ambulance, rather than not being able to feed their kids for three days because the food money went on a taxi to the hospital, I think most parents would call the ambulance.

My comment about cognitive bias wasn’t aimed at you. Sorry.

[Kendodd]

Right, this £50, who pays that?
I've called an ambulance three times in my life.
Once as a teen for a friend who wasn't breathing because something was stuck in her throat.
Once for a stranger having a fit, on the street.
Another time, a neighbour killed themselves.

Who pays this £50? Them or me? What about the dead person, who pays for that?

[AntlerRose]

Ive called ambulences 3 times too, each for people I didnt know. Id be quite upset to be charged and i wouldnt know their ability to pay. Well one was properly conscious so i suppose she could have said no.

[MedPara]

In other countries it’s the person that used the service that gets charged I believe or their family/NoK.

I don’t really agree with charging for an ambulance, but I would like a public awareness campaign of the actual costs involved so it’s a bit more transparent. A letter or email that provides an itemised bill for information or something…..though that just creates an admin burden.

[funtycucker]

@LakieLady

It’s not really the ambulance services job to ferry people who can’t afford a taxi to hospital. That’s a wider societal issue.

I agree, in principle, but what's the alternative for someone who is absolutely on their uppers, if they have a child with a cut that needs suturing, or if they've broken a bone?

I live in a county where some people are 20 miles or more from their nearest A&E. I dread to think how much that would cost in a taxi if it's £16 to travel 8 miles to my nearest one. And we have pisspoor public transport, too.

So you are happy to take an ambulance off the road for hours unnecessarily. You do realise that ambulance would then potential be stuck in A& E with you till you have been handed over.

[PugInTheHouse]

My son dislocated his knee at school and he waited almost 2.5hrs for an ambulance, he was in a huge amount of pain (is also autistic with sensory issues) but obviously not life or death even though we were told he was high priority. After over 2 hrs my friend who lived near the school came over to see him, she works in the surgical team at the hospital so called 999 again with the reference number the school were given, she used the proper medical words and they told her they'd be 5 mins, which they were. We live close to the hospital so it's not a remote area.

A friends brother had a heart attack and he waited 4 hrs for an ambulance. To me that's terrifying as you always assume for something like that one would be there very quickly. He is lucky to be alive, he had major surgery and survived. This is 2 different areas also.

[667TheNeighbourOfTheBeast]

@ShirtingForkBalls

Stop voting tory. Stop voting tory. Stop voting tory....

👍