There is no ambulance service anymore

[Snog]

Twice so far this year NHS111 have told me that my dd needs paramedics to attend for severe chest and abdominal pain and that they are on their way.

Both times the ambulance service called me later and said they would not be attending that night as too busy.

I am posting this because I want people to know that there is no functional ambulance service any more.

If you need an ambulance try to take your loved one to hospital yourself instead. This could save their life.

Obviously when you get to hospital good luck with that but at least you are not waiting for an ambulance that will never come.

[pickledeggnog]

@DontTrustThisPoster

Not scaremongering at all, it genuinely is this bad. My husband was left waiting two hours with a ruptured gallbladder, no ambulances to be had. And my mother was collapsed on the floor with a blood clot, same thing, no ambulances.

A ruptured gallbladder although serious and can be life threatening isn't something that needs immediate transfer to hospital.

Many go to their GP with a ruptured gallbladder then require tests and scans, then get put in for treatment.

2 hour wait is very reasonable for such a condition, especially if you could have gone to hospital yourself

[Devilishpyjamas]

It’s far from ‘not hunky dory’ and it is a choice. I assume those accepting it as okay haven’t experienced it and don’t have the imagination to realise what it is like of that it could happen to them/those they love.

[Abraxan]

@mam0918

Ambulances are for life and death situations that require immediate life saving treatment on scene and/or on route not a taxi service.

They do offer hospital transfer services sometimes for pre-booked appointments especially for disabled travellers who need wheelchair access etc... but in general you're suppose to use taxis.

If you phoned 111 and could sit around waiting instead of calling 999 it CLEARLY is not that serious, you should have made your way there yourself.

Not always!

They are also for patients who cannot be moved. Not just life or death, it moving may call additional harm. Or where their health could be compromised further by moving/making their own way there.

And patients are not always the best person to make these decisions. Hence the triage when calling for an ambulance - people who are trained to know when an ambulance is appropriate or not.

[MedPara]

@Georgeskitchen

The issue now is that and ambulance doesn't just turn up, put you on a stretcher and take you to hospital. Twice in a week an ambulance has been called to an elderly neighbour and that ambulance was outside for 2 hours both times. Yes that's 2HOURS. Yes there is an an obvious need for something to change but also should be looking at why the ambulances are taking taking long at patients houses

The non-conveyance figure in my Trust is about 46%, meaning we deal with calls and discharge 46% of patients on scene rather than taking them to hospital. This reduces the impact at hospital. By keeping someone out of hospital it is supposed to help the ‘bigger picture’. The trouble is, after assessment and any treatment (which can be time consuming), we usually have to make some sort of referral, sometimes multiple referrals, to ensure onward and/or preventative care. That all unfortunately takes time.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Can anyone with a broken back get to hospital themselves? Perhaps they could drive themselves there.

My mum spent 8 weeks nursing a dying elderly neighbour at home. It was her choice, not everyone helping out is put upon

[Metabigot]

I was seriously ill a couple of years ago and 111 strongly advised me nor to wait for an ambulance if I had someone who could take me in which luckily I did. I arrived in a critical state, luckily treated rapidly and successfully but when a wait for an ambulance could actually kill you you know we are fucked.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Pickledeggnog - what do you think ambulances should actually be used for? You seem happy with a service that covers only cardiac arrests. Are there any other situations that you think would be acceptable.

And what preventable death rate are you willing to accept? Or does that depend on the age of the person and whether or they have other disabilities?

[pickledeggnog]

@Devilishpyjamas

Pickledeggnog - what do you think ambulances should actually be used for? You seem happy with a service that covers only cardiac arrests. Are there any other situations that you think would be acceptable.

And what preventable death rate are you willing to accept? Or does that depend on the age of the person and whether or they have other disabilities?

I've said it before but if you need reminding

Life threatening situations where you need immediate medical attention and transportation to the hospital

As PP said if the OP can call 111 they don't need an ambulance, ambulances are for emergencies.

People with broken bones, a cut head etc. (as have been mentioned on this post) can wait (in cases of broken bones and not being able to be moved) or source their own transport

We shouldn't be paying for ambulances to act as a mode of transport. We never have done either so not sure why people think this is a new thing.

[Lancrelady80]

My mum (who is a carer) agreed to be an emergency contact for one of our neighbours when we were kids. It went from helping out in the odd emergency, to regularly being summoned to help with shopping, cleaning, even personal care.

Wow, that really is cheeky and completely unreasonable!

There is a lot in place around Mum, including daily visits from us and as I say carers twice a week, so neighbour literally just keeps an eye on her from the house across the street and will pop most days for a chat. There is no way we would expect more than that, and are v appreciative of what she does.

I completely get what you say about rushed moves, but honestly even a managed move would be so detrimental to Mum's mental health that she would just give up. She worked in a residential home for a long time and has always been of the "shoot me rather than me have to go in one of those" mindset.

[Pinktoothbrushesarefab]

My husband and I used to live within 20 miles of a seaside town. It was a known fact in our area that being seriously ill or robbed etc on a Fri or Sat night wasn't a good idea as you couldn't get either a police car or an ambulance to respond.

The reason was they were all down at the sea-front and town centre dealing with all the drunken revellers - probably some of them were the 17 year olds mentioned on another thread 🙄

When my husband had a severe asthma attack I took him to casualty myself.

When we moved we made sure we were within reasonable distance of a large hospital.😃

[OriginalUsername2]

Yes this is the reality. We have been told a 16 hour wait when we were a hellish situation. A baby up the road having breathing difficulties waited 3 hours.

[miserablecat]

@Devilishpyjamas

Pickledeggnog - what do you think ambulances should actually be used for? You seem happy with a service that covers only cardiac arrests. Are there any other situations that you think would be acceptable.

And what preventable death rate are you willing to accept? Or does that depend on the age of the person and whether or they have other disabilities?

This is what I am wondering.

Also from a non medical pov (there are obviously lots of medics and more knowledgeable people here) if someone is in severe pain, unable to move, or bleeding heavily, Joe bloggs isn't always able to assess - this will be ok, we'll take ourselves there, or this needs specialist attention immediately I'll call an ambulance. I thought if someone had a suspected broken neck or back it was inadvisable to move them for fear of worsening the injury....?
I have been "FFS" at because a head injury is apparently a "bit of blood" and misuse of calling an ambulance....and yet the NHS own advice as per my pic suggests a serious head injury is reasonable cause for calling an ambulance. The reality is, non medics might not recognise what a serious injury looks like.....so must we assume most things are not serious (enough)...?

[rockyg]

As PP said if the OP can call 111 they don't need an ambulance, ambulances are for emergencies.

I called an ambulance despite not being dead already. They blue lighted me & rushed me straight through.

[pickledeggnog]

@rockyg

As PP said if the OP can call 111 they don't need an ambulance, ambulances are for emergencies.

I called an ambulance despite not being dead already. They blue lighted me & rushed me straight through.

So an emergency then...?

[rockyg]

Not by your standards, I could walk, talk, had no idea it was an emergency just didn't feel right.

[FawnFrenchieMum]

In contrast, we called 999 at 11:30 for my DF, he was conscious but needed urgent medical care, his mobility has been limited so much by what ever is whatever is wrong that he couldn’t get into my car and I can’t lift him.

Explained this, they told us it was very busy and we would receive contact within 90 mins even if by phone. 12.20 the ambulance arrived. I was very surprised. He needed to be seen today but wasn’t live threatening at that moment. Expected 8-9 hour wait.

[pickledeggnog]

@miserablecat

And if you click on the link for serious head injury it tells you what's considered serious

What you posted wasn't

Hence they weren't prioritised

[667TheNeighbourOfTheBeast]

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen

It depends. Neighbour was bleeding quite badly, we couldn’t stop it. Ambulance arrived in 20 minutes.
Elderly cousin fainted , doctor advised hospital, ambulance arrived in 30 minutes.
It obviously varies from case to case. Both examples during the day, but one in Scunthorpe, the other In Abingdon.

This is correct, cases are prioritised. My husband is a Paramedic he is usually queuing at the hospital behind several other ambulances to take their patients in. He frequently does 16 hour days. This is due to lack of investment over many many years. It’s not been helped by Brexit and the amount of staff from Europe who left. The Tories just have not put enough money in to the NHS. Be assured that if you were having a heart attack you would get an ambulance quickly and be seen quickly. Unfortunately falls are not what they call a cat 1 job.

[rockyg]

that's shocking

[MedPara]

Re the poster talking about a broken back. You know it was a broken back through the wonder of hindsight. The call itself would have been for a fall I imagine. Unfortunately, falls in the elderly are not prioritised and as a consequence this patient group suffers terribly. We need a new triage system for older patients to flag up these issues but at the same time we simply don’t have the resources to cope with demand.

The problems facing the ambulance service are not new. This has been building for many years but nobody in power has had the wherewithal to foresee it and mitigate it. I remember spending large chunks of my shifts waiting with patients in hospital corridors 10-15 years ago. This was a regular occurrence; now it’s a daily occurrence.

The things that have contributed to the crisis are…

A significant decrease in social care provision. This causes bed blockers in hospital but also means people aren’t supported to live in their homes properly. The lack of good quality yet affordable care homes is also a factor, meaning people who require enhanced care are staying in their homes longer than they should, and not being supported adequately. This leads to increased falls and inability to self-care. In addition, many families provide limited care and support to their elderly family members, which then places more burden onto the health service.

Staff retention is a huge problem in ambulance services. Paramedics now have a huge variety of career options compared to 15 years ago, which are better paid, with much better working conditions. The way staff are treated within ambulance trusts has been dreadful for years. The abuse suffered from the public is also increasing.

People DO phone 999 unnecessarily and you’d be silly to try and deny this. Those who work in the job know this because they deal with it daily. Sometimes it’s due to ignorance, being at the end of their tether, not knowing what else to do or just being a bit dim. Sometimes it’s due to over reaction and panic because many people have limited knowledge and understanding of even basic first aid. Sometimes it’s the ‘good Samaritan’ who spots something that might be a problem but rather than stopping to check and make sure, just phone as they’re driving or walking past. And sometimes it’s people just being selfish, entitled arseholes.

Lack of vehicles. Either because you’re waiting for an earlier shift to get back so you can have their truck, or there just aren’t any. You can’t go anywhere if you don’t have a vehicle.

One of the biggest issues is that the NHS needs a long term recovery plan and investment but no government will ever properly initiate this because they only deal in 4 year terms and god forbid another party ends up in power taking the ‘glory’. Short term plans are simply papering over the deep cracks.

[Hopeandlove]

It depends I have anaphylactic reactions with Epipen both times less than 5 minutes for an ambulance. Chest pain and can get someone to drive you to a and e phone. My son once had a serious asthma
attack I phoned 999 8 times and 8 times was told it was coming but it didn’t I took him to a and e myself, use your common sense if you can take them yourself so it’s serious and they need treatment but you are 30 minutes away - go

[BlooberryBiskits]

@PeloFondo

It doesn't matter how long you're on the phone
It's not delaying the ambulance, the ambulance is arranged from the minute it's needed as it's all done on computer. So if you ring and say the person isn't breathing, and give the address, they will be giving you CPR instructions but from the second you said not breathing, that's triggered an ambulance

And the ambulance probably "took its sweet time" because they were on another job, or stuck at hospital. It's not the staffs fault, they really are trying their absolute best

@PeloFondo : the person who posted this has lost a family member before their time. Have some compassion

@whatdoyouthinkhmm : sorry for your loss

[LakieLady]

I think that is fair enough Ambulances are for real dire emergencies. People abuse the system when they could quite easily get the person to hospital themselves in a car or taxi

Not everyone has family/friends who can drive them or afford a taxi though. It's at least £20 to the nearest A&E by taxi from here, more if it's after a certain time in the evening, or on a Sunday. I know people who would be in real hardship if they had to fork out that sort of money.

Luckily, we have an urgent treatment centre that's open 8am-8pm, 7/7, and can deal with minor injuries, or illnesses that can't wait for a GP appt. That didn't stop my idiot neighbours from calling an ambulance when one of them fell down the stairs pissed and gashed their arm though, and the other was too pissed to drive them there. 😡

[MedPara]

I also think people have zero concept of the costs involved in calling an ambulance out. It’s free at the point of care so people are very ignorant to it.

It’s not really the ambulance services job to ferry people who can’t afford a taxi to hospital. That’s a wider societal issue.

If people had more of an idea about what Paramedics could/would do in terms of treatment then maybe they’d be able to make a more informed decision on whether to travel themselves or call 999. If I’m not needing to provide any treatment then you can usually get there by yourself.