To wonder when it is bad enough to leave, or change schools?

[Justonecat]

In brief dd is struggling in year 8. She went through year 7 as a shadow of her former self and while we were hopeful that year 8 might be better for her, she just broke down in tears yesterday saying she is having a dreadful time in school. I’m wondering how much time to give this before we need to consider making changes. More details below but this is my question in a nutshell. Sorry that this is so long.

My question to you:

• how much time do we give this before we need to make changes? I worry that years of this will eventually have a huge impact on her well-being, personality and learning
• Is it ever an option to ask to change classes? Has anyone done this and how did it work out?

Background if any interest:

Dd just started year 8 after a tumultuous year 7, where she struggled to find her feet in her new school. She hasn’t had social difficulties previously, during lockdown things were of course not great but otherwise she had a happy time in primary school.

In year 7 she started out not knowing anyone in her new school. I believe she approached things with an open mind, and I think she did ok initially as her new classmates voted for her to be a class councillor in one of the first weeks in school. But things very quickly took a turn, she didn’t communicate this to us until the spring term but she became isolated and spent most of the year not having any friends to spend breaks with. We had what I would describe as two major breakdowns in year 7, when she was very upset at home about her life at school.

We spoke to the school and they were very understanding and said they would keep an eye on things but it’s a big school, with lots of other drama in her year, so not easy to monitor. It’s also difficult to address something like this when it’s low level hostility and exclusion, it’s not like she has experienced anything very tangible which could be addressed more directly.

She had a great summer and was eventually back to her old happy self. We were hopeful that year 8 would bring more calm to her year, and that the girls would all come back a bit more mature.

Yesterday she broke down crying. She eventually told me that she is having a dreadful time again. She seems to sit alone most breaks. The other girls are sometimes a bit hostile towards her as well, for example if she asks a practical question they’ll eye roll give her a snappy non answer. They will generally ignore her. There has been a little bit of name calling as well, mostly related to her size. Not nice, but nothing too horrific. It’s not the impact of any specific incident, it’s the sum total of many small unfriendly gestures and the isolation which is becoming too much for her.

Things she/we have tried, or will try:

• Organise after school get togethers, never any takers (she has a busy after school life doing a sport so she does have other people in her life)
• Speak to the school who previously offered to discreetly pair her up with someone friendly, we will try this now

@Iamnewhere I’m so sorry to hear you had such a difficult time in school and that your parents weren’t more supportive. I feel we are letting dd down and I am worried she won’t trust us in the future: when she left her small, very nurturing and happy primary school to join this big, bustling secondary, we promised her that if she really gave it her best try but still wasn’t happy after one year, we would find another solution. Perhaps this was us kicking the can down the road at the time because unfortunately we still aren’t in a position to offer her a private education (which happens to be the only better option where we are located).

now that she comes to us with her worries, we aren’t helping her like we said we would. I think she really tried to make the best of it but she had a really difficult time last year, she didn’t eat properly until a few months ago and has displayed a lot of signs of stress so I am taking it very seriously. I really wish I could get OH to take it seriously too

I agree 100%. It’s the near constant low level anxiety she must feel which worries me. I am
all For sticking it out for a bit like a previous poster said but there are limits

@Justonecat I think its really great that you're exploring options and also that you are speaking with her about it. 100% keep speaking to her about what's going on. I know I felt so ashamed and I was so lonely so it's really good you're there for her.
Maybe the other option is to move her to the other half of the year if that is the school set up. I do remember a few girls doing this and were happier (we are talking 16 years ago though!).
FWIW If it was our child, I'm not sure my OH would understand either. He didn't experience anything like what you've described she's going through, and so I think he wouldn't comprehend how much it can impact mental health, self esteem etc. Having no friends or being picked on is so damaging. Maybe the other alternative for her would be to learn at home for a bit but I'm not sure how that works.
We couldn't have afforded to go private for me either, but there was another senior school.
So tough for you, I hope you manage to find a way forward.

Jumping on here as another day of DS coming home with slumped shoulders.. he spends every break/ lunch alone & has today revealed he finds other boys in his year/ class weird cos all they do is talk about porn..hmm! But he doesn't want to move schools because says it'll be the same anywhere..& I'm concerned it'd be hard to fit in at y8 as most friendship groups will be formed. Just don't know how to help him.. breaks my heart to see him becoming increasingly isolated. Any advice / experiences of moving schools at this stage is v welcome. Thanks

@twordle Two questions: how big is his school and what is he into?

In a reasonably big school his crowd will be in there somewhere, he may just need help connecting with them. Are there lunchtime clubs that he might be interested in? They can sometimes help you meet likeminded kids or, if not, at least keep occupied in company.

If the school is small or has few structured opportunities to socialise I'd look to move him.

I'd move her.

DS was miserable in his primary school in years 1 & 2. He was bullied and excluded and he was absolutely miserable. At the start of year 3 it just got worse, DH and I started thinking about moving him. We then moved house, DS transferred halfway thru y3, it took a month or so but he completely changed. It was like getting our son back.

@Porcupineintherough school is huge. State. no lunchtime clubs - they get v short breaks & he ends up just going to library or wandering on his own. He goes to a couple of after sch clubs but can't seem to build on friendships from them - size of school means it's hit/ miss who he physically sees at break time too. I just don't know if he'd be different in another setting/ if it's 'just him' - I'm considering looking at smaller independents. He could 'get through' at current school but I don't want him to just get through, I want him to be happy being himself & have a social network & crucially not get the confidence kicked out of him..

I'm concerned it'd be hard to fit in at y8 as most friendship groups will be formed.

Year 8 sees massive changes in social groups. They tend to settle by mid yr9 and then shake up again for 6th form.

I currently teach in a small independent school (previously in a 5form entry state school), so feel free to PM me on the ups and downs (it depends on the child - one of my nieces wouldn’t be happy at my school, but the other would love it).

We moved our DD at the start of Year 8. Your story is very similar to ours. My DD had been fine socially at primary school, but struggled to make friends at secondary and fell out of favour with some popular girls who pretty much ostracised DD.

I also hoped Year 8 would be calmer, but by Christmas things were worse, so we decided enough was enough. Luckily a place came up in her year group at another school straight away.

She’s in Year 9 now and has flourished. A good set of friends, the bullying hasn’t followed her. Her new school are also much more effective at nipping bullying in the bid early on, from what I’ve seen.

Id definitely look at moving get. Sometimes children just need a fresh start, and if you brief her new school on what she has been through, they can hopefully put a few things in place to support her and ensure a positive new beginning.

Research tells us that students who struggle with transition tend to achieve lower during their exams and are more likely to suffer with anxiety and depression in later life. Continuing to allow students to suffer like this can have bigger ramifications than most parents realise / accept.

I have a year 8 child and if this was my DD I would absolutely move her. My DD took a good 6 months to settle but has been fine since. Your DD sounds so lonely. If she's been miserable for over a year I would start looking into other schools immediately.

School was like this for me. I wish I’d moved.

Take her to visit the other possible schools in your area. You might be pleasantly surprised by one of them. Alternatively, if they are very 'rough' she might decide her school is the best option and be prepared to stick it out for a bit longer with support from the staff or moving year halves etc as mentioned by a previous poster. It's a very difficult situation, I hope she finds her tribe soon

Does she do any extra curricular activities at school? That's usually the best way to make like minded friends. I'd have a good chat with whoever is in charge of her year group pastorally.

Move her as it seems like she has nothing to lose. I’m a teacher and find ‘exclusion’ type bullying the most difficult to deal with. We can try and engineer friendships but it is often very subtle and impossible to punish the perpetrators for ‘not’ doing something. Nor can we force them to be nice and kind. Have another chat to the school to see if they can help, but year 8 means she’s given it a good chance and can move before options

In exploring all options I'd make sure you've spoken with bursars at your local independents; ask if they know about other sources of fee support you could look at as well.

(part of the reason both of ours ended up boarding was that the schools they ended up at could offer much more bursary support than our local day-school options; such that boarding was cheaper to us)

From experience, I would move her now. If she's not happy by now things are unlikely to change. The problem is where to move her to. What other options are there locally?

My daughter just moved schools for Year 8 and absolutely loves her new school! I think it's definitely a good time to move before they settle in for GCSES. She slotted right in and actually most teachers/students think she was there last year 😂

I moved schools in year 8 and it was a great move for me settled quickly. I moved my boys half way through primary due to bullying and they are thriving now, move her for sure

What a shame when it's a good school.

Unless she can completely change class , I would move her without delay..

The longer it's left it will crush her.

She needs either a dramatic complete change in class or ... totally fresh.

Unfortunately I've seen first hand even teachers with the best intentions can't help or make a mess of trying to help.

Unfortunately again I've seen men dismiss this. infact although my dd didn't have these issues I did move her for year 9 from.a school where the head/ male had previously shown zero interest in settling new children in or bonding stuff!

I've also seen male teachers ( and some female) show zero interest in this and shoe surprise when a student has left due to no friends.

How long does your dd have to suffer because he doesn't get it?

Move her. If this was how I was being treated at work, I'd have handed in my notice months ago.

School can be tough and there's merit in learning to navigate difficult people and situations but this is too much. Her mental health is suffering.

I'd say either move her now or home-educate. If she has home-ed friends already that's great for the social side.
I second getting her signed off for a week or two to give you some breathing space. Have you spoken to the school about how she's feeling?
Just please don't leave things until it's too late. A child with MH issues is truly devastating for everyone in the family (the child most of all of course) and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I knew a couple who were in a similar position to you. Their son had a horrible time with bullying and being ignored for the last 3 years of primary school. The bullies and the rest of the class were going to the local secondary school. The local secondary school is big, has a certain rough element and it just ok.
His mother realised that she could not send him their. She realised that if her child went that he have more of the same.
She looked into other schools in the nearest big town and made an application to the best school. The school has good results, pastoral care, plenty of extra circular activities and is a popular school.
Her son got into this school. He is happy, has made friend's and is involved in things.

I know another couple who's child had a similar problems. Before the child went into the local secondary school they asked the school principal could their child be put in a class group away from their primary school group. This happened and their child is doing well now.

Could you get your daughter moved into a different class group in the school?

You mentioned that the other schools in your area are not as good. Would you look at other schools? Is there a good school near where you or your husband work?

You could contact your local independent schools or boarding schools to see what funding they offer for kids that are not as well off?

I just think from what you have told us that your daughter is not happy in school and has had enough of being ignored and possibly bullying. I think long term she will feel worse and not do as well in school as she could.
If you were going into a job every day that you hated I think you decide to look for a new one.

At this stage I see what other options you have available. I would talk to the school and let them know what is happening. Ask can your daughter move into a different class group. If they fob you off you need to move your daughter to another school.

We moved DD beginning of year 9 from a good school with a fantastic curriculum, she’d had a torrid time for a good 12 months prior with the school trying to work with her, they were only good up to a certain point, damage had been done to DD, she felt no one liked her and felt she had no friends, break times spent in the toilet, even some classes as she felt so intimidated, it got worse, we withdrew her when the threats of physical assaults started. Her new school is very small, Ofsted not great (but I’m convinced the next one will be great) 2 form entry, from day 1 she was made to feel welcome, has friends across the year groups, including a ‘best friend’, academically she’s improving, the range of subjects isn’t as good as previous school but she will come out with a solid set of GCSE’s, enough to move on to a 6th form. My only regret is I didn’t move her sooner, the stress it caused her & had on family life was immense and it took a long time for the weight to lift from my shoulders. Moving was undoubtedly the best decision but you need to find the right school.