To wonder when it is bad enough to leave, or change schools?

[Justonecat]

In brief dd is struggling in year 8. She went through year 7 as a shadow of her former self and while we were hopeful that year 8 might be better for her, she just broke down in tears yesterday saying she is having a dreadful time in school. I’m wondering how much time to give this before we need to consider making changes. More details below but this is my question in a nutshell. Sorry that this is so long.

My question to you:

• how much time do we give this before we need to make changes? I worry that years of this will eventually have a huge impact on her well-being, personality and learning
• Is it ever an option to ask to change classes? Has anyone done this and how did it work out?

Background if any interest:

Dd just started year 8 after a tumultuous year 7, where she struggled to find her feet in her new school. She hasn’t had social difficulties previously, during lockdown things were of course not great but otherwise she had a happy time in primary school.

In year 7 she started out not knowing anyone in her new school. I believe she approached things with an open mind, and I think she did ok initially as her new classmates voted for her to be a class councillor in one of the first weeks in school. But things very quickly took a turn, she didn’t communicate this to us until the spring term but she became isolated and spent most of the year not having any friends to spend breaks with. We had what I would describe as two major breakdowns in year 7, when she was very upset at home about her life at school.

We spoke to the school and they were very understanding and said they would keep an eye on things but it’s a big school, with lots of other drama in her year, so not easy to monitor. It’s also difficult to address something like this when it’s low level hostility and exclusion, it’s not like she has experienced anything very tangible which could be addressed more directly.

She had a great summer and was eventually back to her old happy self. We were hopeful that year 8 would bring more calm to her year, and that the girls would all come back a bit more mature.

Yesterday she broke down crying. She eventually told me that she is having a dreadful time again. She seems to sit alone most breaks. The other girls are sometimes a bit hostile towards her as well, for example if she asks a practical question they’ll eye roll give her a snappy non answer. They will generally ignore her. There has been a little bit of name calling as well, mostly related to her size. Not nice, but nothing too horrific. It’s not the impact of any specific incident, it’s the sum total of many small unfriendly gestures and the isolation which is becoming too much for her.

Things she/we have tried, or will try:

• Organise after school get togethers, never any takers (she has a busy after school life doing a sport so she does have other people in her life)
• Speak to the school who previously offered to discreetly pair her up with someone friendly, we will try this now

I was in a similar position as your DD at high school and my mum made the decision to move me to a new school at the beginning of year 8. She made a point of organising some very local extra curricular activities in the weeks before I actually moved so that when I did move I already knew a couple of the girls there which I think eased the transition for me. I felt as though I could go to the new school as a different person and start again. It was absolutely the right decision for me, and I think it probably would be for your DD too.

Whilst I appreciate the other schools might not be as good, I think you probably need to consider whether she will perform to the best of her ability if she is unhappy at school and perhaps feels unable to speak up in lessons etc x

The best time was last academic year. The second best time is now. Please do not underestimate the damage of being forced to attend a setting where you're made to feel less than. Imagine that being your workplace or your home life and how hopeless and anxious you would feel.

Move her.

I’d move DS had a rubbish time in primary school, no friends, constant low level bullying. Having a much nicer time at high school. I think just having a few friends makes a massive difference. Do any of her sports friends go to local schools?

Also, is your OH her Dad?

I moved school at a similar age and it was one of the best things my parents ever did for me. I was so grateful they listened to my worries and responded even though it was never clear to them why I needed to move so much

I did it in y7 for my dc, really glad we did it. Any qs feel free to PM me op.

I would absolutely look at other schools. Go and visit if possible, with dd preferably.

You said private education isn't an option, but would home education be?

I would prioritise mental health above all else if you're able to somehow. Good luck.

Yes he is her dad. He can be critical of dd who is going through a bit of an awkward stage (as did I aged 11-13…) and while he will listen to her, his response is always to suggest various unhelpful solutions which pretty much have the effect of indirectly placing the blame, and the responsibility for fixing the problem, on dd. He pretty much thinks that all 150 girls in the year can’t all be unfriendly and dd just has to work harder to make connections.

He is desperate to make this work as we are in an area where the local schools are all pretty tough socially speaking, think riots amongst the students and fights after school etc. We managed to get her into the one good school which has a big focus on discipline and also gets good results so it would have been amazing if it had been a good fit.

So it’s just hard to suggest solutions to this problem at the moment. Dd wants to homeschool, she has friends from the sport she does who are homeschooled. Husband not keen…

Is it a mixed sex school or just girls?

My DD is ND and is thriving in an all girls school but it's really small class sizes. She would have drowned in a big school for sure.

I'd move her if you have options. She sounds sporty so not sure homeschooling is a great plan.

This happened with the DD of a good friend. DD is a genuinely lovely girl. Not got a single mean bone anywhere in her body. Her primary school was very of the "leafy middle class village life" type school, which is great in many ways, but not so good at letting kids see the more difficult parts of life.
When she started year 7, she just couldn't understand the bitchiness between the girls, and the rampant bad behaviour that was commonplace in class. She was miserable, and hated school.
Her parents made the decision to move her, and she moved to a different school in June of Year 7. Within a couple of days, she was a new child. Loved school again, and really happy. Her parents just wish they'd done it sooner.

There has to be, I think, a little bit of "stick it out and see how it goes". Learning how to deal with stuff like this is all part of growing up. But at the same time, they're still kids, and it sounds like she's paid her dues with the "stick it out". I'd move her asap.

I have a Y10, and have just asked her to confirm my suspicion - that friendship groups (hers, and the ones she sees around her) didn’t really change after Y7.
Obviously not saying never for any child… but I think your husband is over optimistic if he thinks she can just “find” new friends.
She wants to homeschool? That doesn’t sound like she’d be actively looking to make friends at another secondary.
Are any of the friends from sports out of school strong enough friendships to look at their schools?

I wonder if your OH thinks that because her head isn't being flushed down the toilet then she is fine?
Maybe he doesn't realise that ignoring, excluding and micro aggressions are much worse than that in the realm of teenage girls.

What does she want to do? She’s given it long enough, time to try a different environment

I would move her.
Background:
I was alone all of junior school (for some bizzarre reason I wasn't sent to the Junior school that was attached to my infants, so I had no friends for all of year 3). I spent playtime alone most days, when I wasn't trying to tag on to other people. I had no social life out of school as my parents couldn't be arsed to take us to anything so my only friend was my sister.
Senior school I was bullied for the way that I looked from mid year 7 to year 10. Even from year 10 I was bullied by some but had made friends in other classes and played sport. I skipped school, hid in the toilets during drama lessons and my grades suffered for gcse despite the fact I tried really hard when at home alone to catch up. There's only so much a teenager can teach themself.
My parents did sweet FA. Father was completely uninvolved in anything and despite my mum being a teacher she paid us no attention at home. It wasn't until i was a few months away from sitting my gcses that they got me help - previously I was just mocked by my entire family for being lazy and stupid.
My behaviour went off the rails a little between 15 and 16 due to lack of emotional support at home. Again, nothing done to understand why or change their behaviour.
They knew I was bullied it was obviously happening but their pride and laziness to do anything was their priority.
I have to work really hard not to dwell on this as an adult and suffered massive confidence issues which have held me back professionally. I worked hard for a long time to maintain friendships.
So yes move her and be there to support her as this stuff stays with you for life. I hope she is OK xxx

I've been through this and moved my dd. From the best comp in the area to one not so good...apparently. It was a much smaller school and they were fab with her. No regrets and yes they fight outside on a regular basis but the kids don't seem to mind they just stay out of it!
I would also consider home schooling/online school too. I hope your dd is ok. Please listen to her, she's told you how awful it is and it will destroy her if you make her stay.

One thing potentially in favour of the current school - if it's that big, is the year group split into two? Mine was, so there were basically half of the year group that I never had anything to do with until we took our options, so got mixed up a bit, and then sixth form when everyone was together.

If you wanted to give the school another chance, find out if there's a whole other half! But I echo what everyone else has said - you've given it a good go, there is no shame in admitting defeat!

I wouldn’t send her in on Monday tbh, get her signed off from docs with anxiety, school have to provide work for her, give her time, let her know you will support her every step of the way, talk about other schools with her
been through this with my DD, please don’t keep sending her

Also my dd wanted home schooling ,but both me and dh were reluctant, in the end we got her signed off sick from school, I refused to withdraw her of school roll, they tried to force me, as the law states if a child is on long term sick the education setting has to supply 15 hours a week of home schooling , my dd was year 10, she stayed home for 2 years, sat gcse privately, the wanted to go 6th form in complete new area, she settled in so well, no one new she had been bullied, this week she started at university, so it can work out
please keep her home

In a similar situation here but my concern with moving them is, they'll struggle to integrate in new school where everybody has made friends/ has their little groups already. Sometimes better the devil you know if school is open to helping her more. I feel for you. It's awful to see the change in them during term time. Good luck.

I have to say, though I might sound dramatic, that I do feel that being forced to attend a school that didn't suit me where I was constantly bullied and isolated, was the beginning of a lifelong mental health issue.

Fuck DH, Move her

Agree with those that say it can have a life long impact. I was similar in school. Very alone with low level exclusion and mean comments but not out right bullying. I was so so sad. Things improved at sixth form as it was a different school and only
got better from there. But the scars run deep to this day to the point where it can still affect my mental health, my co Firenze in social situations and work and being at the school gates (kids 6 and 4) can plunge me right back to my secondary school self. I also have deep anxiety over my own kids school experience to the point I lie awake at night worrying they will experience the same at me. So my experiences still impact my everyday life.

Don’t leave it too long to do something as my parents never did anything for me and I resent them a tiny bit for it. good luck

*my confidence

I would look seriously at the alternative schools, bit of ly move for something you think is right.
Are their any Y7 open evenings happening that would get you onto the school for a look without committing?

Yes to class moves being possible. We have just done it. There were minor shuffles for DS in September. Unfortunately it put him in a class with no friends (I'd have told him tough) and the child who has made racist comments about him (school aware) and been physically intimidating him in the corridors (noone was aware except DS and his mates). Class change took 2 days once we had explained the reasons he was desperate to move. He has switched back to my bubbly, confident child. He isn't in his preferred class, but we said he needed to be out rather than had to be back where he'd been so we got what we asked for.

As a PP said, if it’s a big school it probably has two half year groups. If she moves to the other half she’d be with other kids but still have the familiarity of some of the same teachers etc.

Move her life is too short. She deserves to be happy that is the most important thing. She has tried its YR 8. It's good for kids to build up resilience but not to breaking point.