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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a 4 year old can be a bad person

81 replies

edenhills · 23/09/2022 11:37

My friend's child is being bullied in reception. I was discussing this with a group of mum friends and I described the girl as horrible. The group I was with were appalled I would describe a 4 year old like this and said the girl obviously has issues at home or SEN and her behaviour is not her fault at that age. My own daughter was bullied in reception by a boy who locked her in the toilets, pulled her hair, called her names to mention a few things. He has grown up to be an awful 12 year old, no SEN issues. I don't know his full family history but his mum and younger sister seem lovely. I just think some people are horrible and that can include 4 year olds.

OP posts:
takealettermsjones · 23/09/2022 11:51

I think my threshold for labelling anyone as an inherently "bad" person, adult or child, is probably quite high. But yeah in this case I would not call the child bad. I might potentially call his parents bad parents

Marvellousmadness · 23/09/2022 11:55

F that
People yell sen straight away
Or adhd

Kids can be proper arse holes at 4.
But it is usually the parents that enable it or burry their heads in the sand

they call their daughters SPIRITED and HIGHSTRONG and other words like that

But some kids are simply just "horrible".

CallMeLinda · 23/09/2022 11:57

A 4 year old can not be "bad". They can have bad parents, they can have all kinds of bad things going on in their lives that they are acting out. But children that young most likely don't even understand their own actions some of the time.

CallMeLinda · 23/09/2022 11:58

Marvellousmadness · 23/09/2022 11:55

F that
People yell sen straight away
Or adhd

Kids can be proper arse holes at 4.
But it is usually the parents that enable it or burry their heads in the sand

they call their daughters SPIRITED and HIGHSTRONG and other words like that

But some kids are simply just "horrible".

But it is usually the parents that enable it or burry their heads in the sand

Yes, but that's not the Childs fault. They don't understand it's wrong at that age. A good few years older, perhaps, then yes. But four is just so young, and if they have spent 100% of their time with people who model awful behaviour, what else do they know?

NuffSaidSam · 23/09/2022 11:58

YABU.

I think someone needs to be in full control of their actions and have a full understanding of what the results of those actions are before they can be labelled a 'bad' person. A four year old has neither of those things.

I'd also question whether anyone is just 'bad' or whether there is always an issue with mental health/brain chemistry and upbringing when people do truly terrible things. I don't think I believe people are inherently either good or evil.

ExHack · 23/09/2022 11:59

A 4-year old is not fully-developed so there is still the potential for redemption.
However, if she remains in the same environment where these undesirable traits were formed then she will probably grow up to be a horrible (never fully developed) person.

sanityisamyth · 23/09/2022 12:01

My sister was horrific from about 3 or so. She became more and more dangerous over time, ending up with her in prison for GBH. Some people are just like it. I'm bloody terrified of her and always have been.

puddingandsun · 23/09/2022 12:02

YABU, of course.

scoopoftheday · 23/09/2022 12:04

Nobody is born bad. Its what happens around them makes them who they are.

YABU to call a 4 year old horrible.

SpinningFloppa · 23/09/2022 12:04

What annoys me more is how any bad behaviour a child displays people say they must have SN

Original poster
edenhills · 23/09/2022 12:05

NuffSaidSam · 23/09/2022 11:58

YABU.

I think someone needs to be in full control of their actions and have a full understanding of what the results of those actions are before they can be labelled a 'bad' person. A four year old has neither of those things.

I'd also question whether anyone is just 'bad' or whether there is always an issue with mental health/brain chemistry and upbringing when people do truly terrible things. I don't think I believe people are inherently either good or evil.

But did you never look a child in your child's class or friendship group and think - "that kid is awful!"

OP posts:
parietal · 23/09/2022 12:06

every child is a product of their genetics + randomness in their brain development + their environment. If one of these is imperfect, then it can be possible to compensate with another. So a kid who is willful / difficult can learn to be better if they are raised in the right environment (which is v hard). But a kid who is chilled / kind might turn out well in almost any environment.

So you can't say that a 4 year old is inherently bad and nothing can fix that. A 4 year old could be particularly difficult and could improve with the right parenting / teaching interventions. but those interventions are not easy and what works for one kid may not work for another. The parents & teachers need professional help to get it right, not just random criticism and not just 'parenting as normal' that might work for other kids.

NuffSaidSam · 23/09/2022 12:13

edenhills · 23/09/2022 12:05

But did you never look a child in your child's class or friendship group and think - "that kid is awful!"

Show quote history

Yes, of course! All the time!

But awful as a result of the way they're being parented or as a result of being neurologically atypical. Not because they are a 'bad' person.

bodie1890 · 23/09/2022 12:17

A four year old is the product of their home life/ parenting.

They are barely a fully formed human at that age, you can't really label them good or bad - they are just four.

CallMeLinda · 23/09/2022 12:20

edenhills · 23/09/2022 12:05

But did you never look a child in your child's class or friendship group and think - "that kid is awful!"

Show quote history

Yes of course, their behaviour can be awful. But that doesn't mean they are bad, it just means they are behaving badly. They can be taught better.

bodie1890 · 23/09/2022 12:21

edenhills · 23/09/2022 12:05

But did you never look a child in your child's class or friendship group and think - "that kid is awful!"

Show quote history

Of course, but "that kid is awful" is a symptom.

It's not just "that kid is awful" and that's it.

The kid isn't choosing to be awful, they are just a kid.

They are awful because of their experiences/ upbringing/ environment/ parenting etc. Genetics plays a part too but at four, environment has much more influence.

At four, kids aren't good or bad. They're just kids.

MumCanIDoThat · 23/09/2022 12:24

Marvellousmadness · 23/09/2022 11:55

F that
People yell sen straight away
Or adhd

Kids can be proper arse holes at 4.
But it is usually the parents that enable it or burry their heads in the sand

they call their daughters SPIRITED and HIGHSTRONG and other words like that

But some kids are simply just "horrible".

This!! I have met some truly awful children who grew up into even worse adults. I definitely believe some children are bad.

Softplayhooray · 23/09/2022 12:26

I think it's very rare. More like a 'nasty' 4 yr old is being abused at home and it makes them act nasty and internalise self hatred and they never change.

Chattycathydoll · 23/09/2022 12:27

YABU.

A kid who was a really nasty bully in primary later messaged some of the kids he bullied on Facebook (including me!) saying how sorry he was and how ashamed he was of his behaviour. He seems to be a thoroughly decent person now and I know his mum was … well. There was a very public affair & ‘new dad’ situation. I can imagine he was acting out at the time and appreciated his apology.

Mama234567 · 23/09/2022 12:31

It's possible that the behaviour is due to bad parenting/sen needs emotional problems and it's also possible that the child is just horrible. Either way I would always reserve judgement when talking about a 4yr old. There is a child in my sons class who has physically hurt him a couple of times, but I always see this child crying and not wanting to go inside in the mornings clinging to parents, so I am giving him some grace.

Mariposista · 23/09/2022 12:35

Yes they can, but saying they're bad doesn't mean they're bad because t's their fault. Saying they're bad is just stating a fact.

Shortandfurry301 · 23/09/2022 12:35

Surely a child’s character is dependent on a mix of inherited genes and environmental issues eg parenting? So it’s not one or the other but a combination of those two factors?

Dreamwhisper · 23/09/2022 12:39

What's wrong with you?? You can't judge a grown adult by who they were at 16 let alone 4 years old ffs.

Children are innocent and their behaviours are communications and reactions to the world around them. Of course they have personalities but those are still honed by their influences. Their influences which they have no control over. I have a naturally very boisterous and at times naughty boy. He's still not going round hitting people are school because he has been told that it is not acceptable.

There's no excuse for blaming such a young child for their actions and calling them horrible. And yes I've met kids I find unsavoury but let me tell you there are definitely reasons in their little lives for that, poor things.

ohfook · 23/09/2022 12:40

In my experience the kids who are the most unlovable, for whatever reason, are usually the ones who most desperately need someone to care for them.

Kids, just like adults, can be spoilt, annoying, domineering, boisterous, poorly parented etc but if you genuinely think they are bad or evil then I would bet that something has happened to make them that way.

BrendaHope · 23/09/2022 12:40

Brilliant response @parietal