Britain and the US are poor societies with some very rich people- Average Polish family to be better off than the average UK family by 2024 (a far cry from the time when the UK was the biggest economy in the world when Queen Elizabeth was crowned)

[onthefencesitter]

Very interesting article from the FT-

www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

'Its a similar story in the middle. In 2007, the average UK household was 8 per cent worse off than its peers in north-western Europe, but the deficit has since ballooned to a record 20 per cent. On present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. A country in desperate need of migrant labour may soon have to ask new arrivals to take a pay cut.

It’s a similar story in the middle. In 2007, the average UK household was 8 per cent worse off than its peers in north-western Europe, but the deficit has since ballooned to a record 20 per cent. On present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. A country in desperate need of migrant labour may soon have to ask new arrivals to take a pay cut.'

I wonder how patriotic Brits feel about this. Do they comfort themselves with the fact that they are better off than African countries (which have often been looted and invaded and suffered from extremely unstable political environments as well as war) despite the fact that the UK is relatively politically stable and is at peace? yes in the past, the british working class suffered great poverty but it was not poorer relative to the poor in its colonies or other 'developing countries' . Certainly for the average UK person to be poorer than the average polish person who were liberated from communism a mere 32 years ago is quite a feat...

2019 figures. I'll have a look through your link now.

M

This is fascinating thanks for sharing.
In really curious to understand why we consistently vote Tory in the UK. Can anyone shed any real light on this? I don’t mean ‘because it’s the only option’ crap; I mean from a place of more ‘expertise’- is it because we have had a long running class system with a monarchy & so therefore feel more that the elite should be in charge? I can’t really think of any other reason as to our societal behaviour. I wonder if we are politically very very ignorant in the UK also- politics not taught as mainstream obligatory subject in schools either. Is it the press influence? It’s really remarkable at what it costs us as a society and yet we carry on choosing this option. X

Is it the press influence?

This is a lot of it. Don't know if it will change as the generation that is most likely to read print media dies off. A lot of people get their current affair news from social media but that is algorithm-based. Many people choose not to get information about current affairs from any source now and remain ignorant.

Actually for many poorer countries remission, ie money sent home earning abroad, accounts for close to 50% of gdp.

@Georgeskitchen The polish people I know are living in £750k houses, driving mercedes and working hard self employed! I don’t know any who do ‘shitty’ jobs or living in ‘shitty’ housing! I think you’re generalising just a bit..

@Georgeskitchen also it’s not really about the existence of a utopia or not - it’s just the difference in income / wealth inequality across societies as a whole. x

A minority vote Tory but because of our outdated political system, we are generally governed by a single party who win a majority of seats. And yes, I include when Labour won with only 35% of the vote in 2005.

Winner takes all is such a poor system.

Fully agree, but people seem to think FPTP brings 'stability'. Looking back at the past 6 years that's just a bad joke.

@pointythings I've had a look through it now, and I'd say that your article is listing the income inequality index, not the wealth inequality index, even though the title and the text indicate the other way around.

@Boomboom22
I posted a World Bank table upthread that showed remittances as a percentage of GDP.

I don't think any country was anywhere near 50%. Poland is currently at 1.1%. It was at 2.5% about 20 years ago.

Why would a patriotic Brit feel hard done by that the average person in Poland is predicted to better off than them? Why shouldn't Polish people enjoy a decent quality of life?

I don't care if Polish people are better or worse off than us. I don't care if we're "better off than African countries". What matters is whether the standard of living in UK is adequate and that is independent of whether other countries have it better or worse.

I want to have good standard of living. That's not contingent on my neighbour being richer or poorer than me. I'd rather have two loaves of bread and my neighbour have ten than me have one and they have none, even if it means I'm comparatively better off than they are in the second scenario.

Many Brits I have met believe they have a superior standard of living compared to other countries. In truth, how do you measure quality of life. There is criteria but often it only makes sense relative to other countries. Otherwise it can be subjective. Like you can say , this is a poor country because I saw a woman and she told me she was in poverty. There isn't a country on the planet which has managed to completely 100% eradicate poverty, even Norwegian poverty is 0.2%!

So if you are doing worse than an ex Soviet bloc country, it is like getting a C on a report card when everyone else is getting As and Bs. Like you can go home and say, mum, I believe this is a good grade and I passed and it is good enough for me but honestly that isn't really true...

Time to move to Poland!😁

Most British people voted for manifesto promises that have been consistently broken. It doesn't really matter who you vote for, you get who the elite and rich want and they elected government (be it Labour or Tory) will work for them and throw the plebs a few scraps. It has been like this at least since Blair got into power. The financialisation of everything and people are just commodities to be traded by the rich and powerful.

My country is Singapore. GDP per capita is 59,797.75 USD. London GDP per capita is 55,974 British pounds. So it is roughly equal to London now. But London is the richest region in the UK. Malaysia is a much poorer country and its GDP per capita is below UK. Yes Singapore is a city but the only city that can even compare with singapore 's GDP per capita is London and all the other regions are just so far behind. This was not the case 60 years ago. My point was that countries change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Malaysia is sadly not even a first world country, we should be very worried if we were even on par with Malaysia! There are parts which are richer though like Penang and KL.

@DdraigGoch what makes you say that? In order for it to be true, the headings would have to be flipped throughout, which would be a very major error which the organisation would hardly have allowed to stand.

The table about three quarters down the web page is pretty unequivocal and is clearly labelled 'wealth inequality', not 'income inequality'.

@DdraigGoch I beg your pardon. [https://wid.world/world/#shweal_p90p100_z/US;FR;DE;CN;ZA;GB;WO/last/eu/k/p/yearly/s/false/38.4975/125/curve/false/country this is a more comprehensive picture which goes beyond the gini coefficient]] and you are correct in some respects, though not with regards to the Netherlands and Denmark.

this is a more comprehensive picture which goes beyond the gini coefficient

With clicky link.

According to the Department of Statistics Singapore, the average monthly household income from work is $12,276, and it converts to £7906 per month or £94,000 per year. Meanwhile, UK median household income is £31,400 so three times less

I couldn't find the average household income in London. I live in london and i think DH and I are pretty average, our combined household income is £92k. So probably london is around the same as in singapore. Except in singapore, if you are a citizen you can access subsidized housing (can buy a government built flat for around £150k while my flat cost me £392k in London) but you do have to pay for healthcare while the nhs is free (if you can access it). But i think the numbers in singapore/london are probably quite similar.

But 60 years ago, singaporean incomes/wealth was nowhere near london. In the past, the pound used to buy 5 singapore dollars! Now it is 1.6 singapore dollars for a pound. I am so worried about a run on the pound that I am transferring all my savings to my singapore bank account as it is being shorted like crazy.

From about 2000 to 2020 I lived in East End of London, with any immigrants who were earning good money.
But much of London particularly the East and North are rundown.
Why was the money being generated being spent? Not Locally. It was sent back to the home country so Romania, Poland, Turkey, Southeast Asia all benefitted from our money.

Money Transfer Businesses multiplied along Bethnal Green Road and Up to Dalston that I saw. many other examples all over.
The economists thought that a good idea because it was deflationary.

Was this money being taxed or was it cash in hand?

They also live a cleaner lifestyle cooking from scratch, repairing reusable items, good with budgeting.

They had no choice but to learn with no longterm social welfare system or shanigans of can work but won't work.

Most from parents who had no choice but to budget and scraping by while working.

It's very depressing. And the recent "mini-budget" will only make this worse.

Was this money being taxed or was it cash in hand?
The money they earned while employed around Europe? I'd assume so as they're mostly employed by legitimate companies.
Prsi is worth paying if you become ill.