Britain and the US are poor societies with some very rich people- Average Polish family to be better off than the average UK family by 2024 (a far cry from the time when the UK was the biggest economy in the world when Queen Elizabeth was crowned)

[onthefencesitter]

Very interesting article from the FT-

www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

'Its a similar story in the middle. In 2007, the average UK household was 8 per cent worse off than its peers in north-western Europe, but the deficit has since ballooned to a record 20 per cent. On present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. A country in desperate need of migrant labour may soon have to ask new arrivals to take a pay cut.

It’s a similar story in the middle. In 2007, the average UK household was 8 per cent worse off than its peers in north-western Europe, but the deficit has since ballooned to a record 20 per cent. On present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. A country in desperate need of migrant labour may soon have to ask new arrivals to take a pay cut.'

I wonder how patriotic Brits feel about this. Do they comfort themselves with the fact that they are better off than African countries (which have often been looted and invaded and suffered from extremely unstable political environments as well as war) despite the fact that the UK is relatively politically stable and is at peace? yes in the past, the british working class suffered great poverty but it was not poorer relative to the poor in its colonies or other 'developing countries' . Certainly for the average UK person to be poorer than the average polish person who were liberated from communism a mere 32 years ago is quite a feat...

The difference is that these workers are prepared to move for work and to house share.

UK social media is full of people complaining that their son/daughter had to move to the nearest town because they couldn't afford to buy in the village they were born in, or how they can't possibly be expected to pay a landlord's mortgage to live in a houseshare, and must have a home of their own.

I've lived in several European countries, and students and young people often houseshare in slightly grotty but often centrally located apartments. Here, its looked down upon as some kind of terrible thing where you will come to terrible harm if it isn't licensed and inspected by the state.

I found the standard of living in Scotland to be worse than anything I experienced in any other European country. I can only assume that most people there have never had the experience of living abroad, have inherited substantially or wfh or part time because they don't seem to realise how bad it is.

There was never enough people going back to boost the whole economy, that a ridiculous claim. Most people saved up enough to have a deposit to buy or build their house.

What makes a massive difference is that the maternity pay and the equivalent of child benefit are the same, if not much better than in the UK - by that I mean they get more money (in £) than we get here. It allows families to live comfortably even if they take time out of work to raise a family. That in turns boosts the economy.

Rosa gallica

Blair also tinkered with access to free legal advise.
There was loads of pro bono stuff years ago.

Surely this is a good thing? Eastern European countries have presumably been difficult to live in, hence so many people coming from there to the UK. It will be great for them if they can stay with their loved ones back in their home country, rather than having to come somewhere strange where they don't speak that language, living in cramped conditions, just to earn a semi decent wage.

Im delighted for them. They have beautiful countries and they deserve to live there and prosper ♥️

21 million pounds of UK child benefit also boosted living standards in Poland for children who never set foot here?

The loop hole?

£21 million is literally peanuts in the running of a national economy .

My DD1 is living in a house share post graduation. She loves it, the people there are her friends and she has everything she needs. Home ownership is too much of a sacred cow in the UK. Other forms of living are just as valid and should all be available.

£21 million is literally peanuts in the running of a national economy

I had the same thought, and it wasn’t like there was no economic benefit for the country, there are two sides to any transaction.

Looking at some industries staff shortages I’d happily bet that we’ve lost much more than that with the end of freedom of movement.

A few days ago, I heard a Tory radio commentator, name escapes me, replying to something quoted from the FT describe the paper as "not a business paper". Right.

@Cornettoninja ending freedom of movement has already cost the UK billions. But some people are so wedded to Brexit and the Conservatives that they don't want to know.

God, we need an election.

God, we need an election

we need a full blown revolution - there’s just no consequence for anything anymore.

It's great they are prospering but it should also remind us we are falling behind

There was never enough people going back to boost the whole economy, that a ridiculous claim. Most people saved up enough to have a deposit to buy or build their house.
Plenty who didn't return regular send money to their family. My neighbour has a brilliant job, she is highly educated she sends money back to her parents, she's staying bought her home here and rents out 2 bedrooms and the living room, she values stability over comfort.

My Dbro employees are married though their families live in Poland they regularly send home money while living in cramped conditions here.

It's a good thing IMO we shouldn't be jealous just because Ireland and the UK are failing desperately. 😔

I think that many people in the UK are probably unaware of how their lifestyle compares to people in other similar countries.

The problem is, we keep voting in politicians who maintain the unequal status quo.

We don't have to.

People can vote for change and they need to, we all do.

A good reminder. The legal people before 2010 were concerned and making noise about how access to law and legal representation was becoming the preserve of the rich I remember.

In fact there was a lot of concern about socioeconomic issues being expressed in the 00s. Why does it feel as if no one is seriously allowed to raise such topics any more? As if we’ve lost the language and narratives to talk about them - is it because we lost the educated group who had the tools to do it?

Other forms of living are just as valid and should all be available. Yeah, sure they are, and conveniently they involve massive inequality with some very secure and rich groups building superyachts while poorer groups own only what they stand up in and have no access to healthcare - or even law and order - and no power for change.

I think this is true.

I don't live in the UK, but when I go back to visit family I'm always taken aback at the sheer amount of 'stuff' people seem to own, the flashy cars etc. I don't think people in the UK realise just how cheap supermarket food and material goods have been there for years, certainly compared to Europe. I live in an extremely well-to-do part of a French city, and I don't see anything like the flash Mustangs and 4x4s that are parked outside my father-in-laws apartment, which is on a bog standard Persimmons development in a pretty run-down part of town. I used to love coming back to shop in the UK - for clothes, DIY stuff, household items - they were all so much cheaper than back in France! Plus credit is so easy to get in the UK.

The result, I think, is that being able to afford to buy flash cars, to decorate and redecorate houses, to buy all kinds of 'stuff', has made a lot of people feel much better off than they actually are - they can afford a lifestyle / standard of living that their parents couldn't. But it's all based on cheap imports (of food and goods) and easy credit. And that is coming to an end for all kinds of reasons.

...

Chocochops I don't live in the UK, but when I go back to visit family I'm always taken aback at the sheer amount of 'stuff' people seem to own, the flashy cars etc. I don't think people in the UK realise just how cheap supermarket food and material goods have been there for years, certainly compared to Europe. I live in an extremely well-to-do part of a French city, and I don't see anything like the flash Mustangs and 4x4s that are parked outside my father-in-laws apartment, which is on a bog standard Persimmons development in a pretty run-down part of town. I used to love coming back to shop in the UK - for clothes, DIY stuff, household items - they were all so much cheaper than back in France! Plus credit is so easy to get in the UK.

Yes, the UK is much more commercial and consumerist than France. Its a throwaway culture. Even French car taxation is designed to make keeping older roadworthy vehicles cheaper than buying new ones. I always notice how little cheap stuff there is on FB marketplace in France compared to my nearest city in the UK, where you can pick up almost everything you want just as good as brand new for very cheap prices.

And Truss and Kwarteng’s answer is to widen the wealth inequality gap even further. Somehow they’re so stupid that they believe we will overlook giving thousands to the 1% as long as there is a (very small) chance we get a fiver ourselves.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.DT.GD.ZS

Data on personal remittances as a percentage of GDP worldwide.
Poland was at 1.1%in 2020.
In 2006 it was 2.5%.

Polish people also worked (and work) in Ireland, Germany, Netherlands, France, Denmark, the US, etc.

I agree this is a huge part of it.

on a political podcast I listen to they were discussing this week how the US is very good at convincing its population that they are much better off than they actually are, and how the U.K. was going the same way.

there’s an exceptionalist attitude in the US and U.K. - a sense of superiority that you don’t find in many other countries. Even the OP in this thread described the U.K. as relatively politically stable. If another country had elections or a new leader every year for 6 years, we’d think it was on the verge of collapse. Not to mention all the shenanigans with the illegal prorogation of parliament, the bad faith Brexit negotiations, Scottish independence gaining ground etc etc. The U.K. is very far from stable.

Is the point not how poor the poorest in the UK have gotten? How is that a good thing? The poorest in Ireland have a standard of living almost 63% higher than the poorest in the UK. The level of poverty, the reliance on charities to feed people is astonishing and not normal yet no one seems to care? They care more than some polish workers are getting pitiful UK child benefit because they live and work there? I mean ffs some people seem to think that it is down to the UK that Poland is doing well? If you can help an entire country as big as Poland then why can't you help your own poor? Why do you have them lining up begging for food at food banks?