To be completely confused by the mini budget?

[towelhammer]

Just baffled really, how is it going to boost the economy & improve public services?

Thatcher carried the markets with her.

Not sure about the prosperity stuff, we had some pretty awful recessions in the 80s and 90s plus we had the best of NS production tax receipts.

Trickle Down was first coined by a Hollywood actor and has never been an economic theory.

We don't have the time to tell, there are proven ways to stimulate an economy in a sustainable way.

because you are subsidised by the state, the state being other members of society.

High earners are now being subsidised by other tax payers as their cuts are being funded with borrowed money which we’ll all have to repay - and our children and grandchildren.

Everybody is being subsidised by the borrowing and the very rich are being subsidised a whole lot less than everyone else. I really don't agree with this budget but I am astonished that people seem to have just completely forgotten that tax cuts are not giving people money, they are letting people keep their own money. Benefits and services are giving people money, more often than no other peoples money. Tax credits were such a sleight of hand in terms of the way they were named. They are not tax credits they are cash handouts from the state, of monies that are taken from one sector of society and given to another. The narrative that 'people in receipt of tax credits are also taxpayers' is in reality a nonsense as the fact id if you are receiving benefits you are not a net contributor.

the very rich are being subsidised a whole lot less than everyone else.

Not after today they’re not. They’re getting a whole lot more than any universal credit claimant.

No they really aren't. The borrowing is to fund the public services in lieu of their money which they now get to keep. The borrowing would not be required if we just slashed services to match. Universal credit claimants cost the state a huge amount, people earning 150000+ a year don't, no matter how you try to spin it.

I agree that it's incorrect to say that high earners are being subsidised by other tax payers. Technically, they are keeping more of their money while the government borrows more to cover the shortfall in tax take.

However, high earners would be foolish to think that they are not heavily dependent on lower earners in many other ways. Who do they think empties their bins? Who produces their food? delivers their shopping? Who teaches their children? Who will care for them when they're elderly?

Nobody in our society is independent. Nobody can function without the contributions of others. Some people contribute financially through their taxes. Some contribute by providing essential services, often on very low wages. Some people in other ways. We all need each other.

What ‘evidence from previous experience’?

Pity no-one has tried stimulating the economy then. We know Labour’s plans (from experience) will produce stagnation. So what do you suggest?

Pity no-one has tried stimulating the economy then.

Isn’t it? The Tories have only had 12 years to do it.

Ronald Reagan tried this in the 1980s.Cutting income tax and de regulation. Giving business tax cuts . The idea of Reaganomics was for the wealth to trickle down to the less well off. It didn’t happen.
Instead we got the Greed is good culture ( remember the film Wall Street?).

It similarly happened here to ,when Thatcher privatised everything. The big bosses got greedy and the working class got poorer.

In four decades it’s like nothing has been learnt.

I’m going to play devils advocate here. If bankers earn bigger bonuses, they’ll get taxed more. So effectively, the big bonuses go back to the coffers?
Secondly , is it better for businesses to settle here and pay a bit less tax, rather than go abroad? Atleast the UK would benefit from the tax it pays. The UK wouldn’t benefit at all if a company sets up camp abroad.

If a business is attracted to set up here because it pays less tax,it still employs people who work here and pay tax and NI. So still benefits the UK?

I think the chancellor said that if you ask businesses to pay a bit less tax, they are less likely to avoid paying it or look at leaving the UK.

Again, devils advocate.

They are not- can you provide your calculations to support that?

Financial Times: Pound slumps below $1.09: Larry Summers tells Bloomberg: Britain 🇬🇧 will be remembered for having pursued the worst macroeconomic policies of any major country in a long time.”

Tories Rob Poor To Pay The Rich

and

A Budget For The Rich

From Pippa Crerar on Twitter "Staggering analysis from Resolution Foundation...

Almost half (45%) of gains from personal tax cuts will go to richest 5% alone, who'll be £8,560 better off.

In contrast, just 12% will go to poorest half of households, who'll be average £230 better off next year."

well I won’t be complaining. The NI reversal will put £120 a month in my pocket.

Joseph Rowntree Foundation:

www.jrf.org.uk/press/joseph-rowntree-foundation-responds-chancellor’s-fiscal-statement

"The Government may have an economic theory, but today it has proven it has no understanding of the economic reality facing millions across the UK."

Yes - give him the benefit of the doubt. He’s the most qualified Chancellor this country has ever had. Phd in Economics from Cambridge, Harvard etc…

They don't call him Kami Kwasi Kwarteng for nothing.

Larry Summers:

“It makes me very sorry to say, but I think the UK is behaving a bit like an emerging market turning itself into a submerging market.”

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1573324063266803716?s=46&t=kr0nSrH7Oly4IS9kBga1BA

Larry Summers:

“Between Brexit, how far the Bank of England got behind the curve and now these fiscal policies, I think Britain will be remembered for having pursuing the worst macroeconomic policies of any major country in a long time.”

"It would not surprise me if the pound eventually gets below a dollar, if the current path is maintained…This is simply not a moment for the kind of naïve, wishful thinking, supply-side economics that is being pursued in Britain.”

"Robin Hood in Reverse"

"I'm alright Jack!".

I'm sure all the government's friends will be agreeing with you. Stuff the rest of society sliding speedily into horrendous poverty.

You actually make me sick.

That's not playing devil's advocate, it's playing Tory cabinet member.

What was the name of that guy who always makes a fortune betting on the £ to plummet? Odey or something? Isn't Kami-Kwasi Kwarteng mates with him? And didn't his actions as Chancellor just cause the £ to plummet?