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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the govt is mad for revoking the fracking ban?

125 replies

ShangPie · 22/09/2022 13:59

That’s just it really - I can’t believe that the government has revoked the fracking ban.

It’s all kinds of wrong for loads of reasons:

Seriously damages the environment locally
Contributes to global climate change
Makes us more dependent on fossil fuels
Not-insignificant risk of manmade earthquakes near fracking sites!

To name just a few that come to mind…

Can we get this govt petition up to the 10,000 needed to reconsider it?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/614611

OP posts:
adriennewillfly · 23/09/2022 08:23

I would be for it, if we set up state owned enterprises to frack, and kept the profits in a sovereign wealth fund. But the tories will just be using the limited profits from privitised entities to fund tax cuts for the rich like with the North Sea oil.

Alexandra2001 · 23/09/2022 08:36

adriennewillfly · 23/09/2022 08:23

I would be for it, if we set up state owned enterprises to frack, and kept the profits in a sovereign wealth fund. But the tories will just be using the limited profits from privitised entities to fund tax cuts for the rich like with the North Sea oil.

Anyone with any sense in Govt would push for nationalisation of North Sea and renewable energy production, that would be 67% of our annual energy use, we'd control the price of that energy.

Would be far cheaper than the current est of 180 billion of borrowing, would lower inflation considerably and when/if this is over, could privatise and get monies back.

Pretty much as we did with retail banking in 2008 or France has done now.

The Govt's approach has seen the £ collapse and gilt yields rise considerably, both driving up inflation, wrecking your pension and extra borrowing costs.

Musti · 23/09/2022 08:40

Done. Renewables are absolutely the only way forward and there is enough to power every house on the uk

Endlesssummer2022 · 23/09/2022 08:55

‘Higher house prices- FALSE. Homes in fracking areas lose value, they do not gain value.’

I also disagree that fracking will increase house prices. Unless you mean it will increase prices in areas far away from fracking sites like cities. That would would make sense as I wouldn’t risk moving to the countryside to later find out it’s close to an area earmarked for a fracking site.

Isn’t it funny how the more the Tories wrap themselves up in the flag yelling how patriotic they are, the more treacherous things they do.

Discovereads · 23/09/2022 08:56

DdraigGoch · 22/09/2022 23:50

Oh do read the thread. I have stated several times that I quoted a former NATO Secretary General - Anders Fogh Rasmussen.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking

That doesn’t say that the environmentalists are wrong about the environmental and climate change harms of fracking. Who cares who funds a good cause? I certainly don’t.

inheritanceshiteagain · 23/09/2022 09:07

You're talking rubbish. The facts don't support your statements.

inheritanceshiteagain · 23/09/2022 09:09

The 2.9 'earthquake' lasted 2 seconds. Ridiculous exaggeration all around

Discovereads · 23/09/2022 09:17

@inheritanceshiteagain
Thousands of US residents can literally light their tap water on fire 🔥 due to the after effects of fracking.

www.propublica.org/article/scientific-study-links-flammable-drinking-water-to-fracking
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26608711/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26943595/

Discovereads · 23/09/2022 09:19

@inheritanceshiteagain
Results of 1 spill:
1,400 barrels of fracking slurry mixed with crude oil had drained off the wellsite owned by Enduring Resources and into a snow-filled wash. From there, that slurry – nearly 59,000 gallons – flowed more than a mile downstream toward Chaco Culture national historical park before leaching into the stream bed over the next few days and disappearing from view. The rolling, high-desert landscape where this happened is Navajo Nation off-reservation trust land, in rural Sandoval county, New Mexico. Then three days after the spill, something ignited and exploded 2,100 feet away on another wellsite owned by Enduring Resources, starting a fire that took local firefighters more than an hour to put out.
The two accidents account for just 1% of oil- and gas-related incidents in north-western New Mexico in 2019, according to statistics kept by the New Mexico oil conservation division (OCD). Since those two, there have been another 317 accidents in the region as of 29 March, including oil spills, fires, blowouts and gas releases.
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/04/navajo-nation-fracking

It takes about three to five days to create a fracking well. Most will produce gas or oil for two to four decades. Source: Coloradans for Responsible Energy Development

Fracking produces 30 percent to 100 percent more methane emissions than traditional natural gas wells, according to researchers at Cornell University. The heat-trapping gas is a major contributor to global climate change.
Robert Howarth, a professor of ecology and environmental biology, told the Cornell Chronicle that the main takeaway from his research is that if you project forward 20 years, gas production from shale is “worse than conventional gas and is, in fact, worse than coal and worse than oil.” Howarth advised that renewable energy is the only good option.
Source: Climatic Change journal

According to an Environmental Protection Agency analysis, 173 chemicals used in fracking are toxic if consumed regularly by mouth.
Source: Environmental Protection Agency

A 2014 report from the Natural Resources Defense Council claims that fracking is contributing to an array of dangerous air pollutants including: Ozone smog, Pollutants, such as formaldehyde, benzene and other toxic hydrocarbons, diesel emissions, and a component of “frac sand,” silica can cause serious lung disease in fracking workers

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health took 116 air samples from 11 fracking sites in five states to see how much silica workers were encountering. Of the samples taken, 47 percent revealed silica exposures larger than the OSHA permissible exposure limit (PEL), and 79 percent exceeded the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health recommended exposure limit. Unfortunately, the toxic effects of silica dust can take a long time to show up. Acute silicosis, which almost always causes disability and death, usually occurs after several months or years of high exposure to silica. Accelerated silicosis appears within five to 10 years and has the same outcome.

Oklahoma experienced more than 2,400 earthquakes of 3.0 magnitude or higher between 2014 and 2017.The Sooner State has surpassed California as the country’s hotbed of earthquake activity.
In 2014, the Ohio Department of Natural Resources concluded that fracking had produced tremors southeast of Cleveland in Poland Township.
Source: Office of the Secretary of Energy & Environment

A 2011 study in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives looked at 68 private drinking wells in New York and northeastern Pennsylvania and found elevated levels of methane in those near fracking wells.

Residents of Dimock, Pennsylvania, claimed that their drinking water became contaminated with methane after Cabot Oil & Gas began fracking there in 2007. In some cases, the tap water had so much methane in it that it could be set on fire. Some Pennsylvania residents filed fracking lawsuits, and a jury awarded two families a $4.2 million verdict.

Canadian officials concluded that three earthquakes that occurred in Western Canada in late 2018 were caused by the fracturing process itself. According to Global News, the British Columbia Oil and Gas Commission concluded that the earthquakes, which ranged in magnitude from 3.4 to 4.5, were caused by hydraulic fracturing operations being conducted by the Canadian Natural Resources.

In 2018, Canadian researchers published new findings in Geophysical Research Letters that show that injection-induced earthquakes are more common in areas like northern British Columbia where “tectonic strain rate” is high.

B.C.'s Peace region is experiencing roughly 1,500 small earthquakes a year and most of them are connected to fracking operations, according to a new study.
Researchers set up 15 earthquake detectors around the region and recorded 5,757 tiny earthquakes that were otherwise undetected between 2017 and 2019.
"The vast majority of them seem to be connected with hydraulic fracking operations," said Alessandro Verdecchia, one of the study's lead researchers, during an interview on CBC's Daybreak North. The research was published in the Seismological Research Letters journal in July.

A new study has found homes close to where fracking was used to extract natural gas in British Columbia have higher levels of certain organic pollutants, which may lead to short- and long-term health effects.Elyse Caron-Beaudoin, lead author and a professor in the department of health and society at the University of Toronto, Scarborough, said researchers took water and air samples from the homes of 85 pregnant women in the Peace River area of B.C. for one week. Pregnant women were recruited for the study because of the potential negative health effects of living close to natural gas wells using fracking, including higher rates of pre-term births, low birth weight and heart malformations, she said.Source:Science of the Total Environment

Luckydip1 · 23/09/2022 09:21

While we wait 50 years to be able to be self sufficient from renewables we need energy and the more self sufficient we can be the better so I say bring on the fracking and stop the nimbyism.

Discovereads · 23/09/2022 09:21

@inheritanceshiteagain
The fracking solutions with all their chemicals leach into surface reservoirs- which the US & Canada also have. The SW US where fracking occurs do rely a lot on deep water wells, but for Ohio/Pennsylvania the terrain and water systems are very similar to our northwest. Geologically they are the same mountain range of Pangea- now separated by the Atlantic due to continental drift.

Anyway here is a table of the actual toxic chemicals found in 10% or more drinking water disclosures in the US along with the biological impacts to humans from the EPAs executive summary of their focussed report on the impact of fracking to drinking water.

www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-12/documents/hfdwa_executive_summary.pdf

To think the govt is mad for revoking the fracking ban?
DuncinToffee · 23/09/2022 09:24

Groningen in the Netherlands

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61901033

Life inside the Dutch earthquake zone
The gas that made the Netherlands rich has left towns and villages falling apart.

Discovereads · 23/09/2022 09:24

@inheritanceshiteagain

How do you feel about radioactive waste?

Carboniferous shale not only has natural gas in it but radium and radon gas. The process of fracking releases radon gas as well as natural gas. Radon is radioactive and the #1 cause of lung cancer in non smokers. Here are two of many studies. By the way, the bedrock under England is the same bedrock under Pennsylvania as both were from the same mountain range in Pangea. There’s radium and radon in our shale too.

“According to a new study published by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, the level of Radon in Pennsylvania houses is increasing in areas where hydraulic fracturing is used to produce natural gas from the Marcellus tight shale formation. The peer-reviewed research article, titled Predictors of Indoor Radon Concentrations in Pennsylvania, 1989-2013,...”

Radon is the number one cause of lung cancer among non-smokers. It is a radioactive gas which comes from the natural decay of uranium in soil, rock and water and gets into air we breathe. It typically moves up through the ground to the air above and into homes through cracks and other holes in the foundation. Radon from soil gas is the main cause of problems. Sometimes radon enters the home through well water. In a small number of homes, the building material can give off radon too.

The research studied levels of radon in 866,735 buildings from 1989-2013. In the study the researchers found that 42.2% (median of 8.4pCi/L) of the Radon readings were higher than the EPA action level. The research also showed an upward trend from 2004-2012 in all studied counties and higher levels of radon in counties with drilled wells. The upward trend beginning time is around the same time that fracking industry began drilling in the state. Between 2005 and 2013, 7469 unconventional natural gas wells were drilled in Pennsylvania.

EPA recommends 4 pCi/L (148 Bq/m3) as the action level at which people should fix their houses. Elevated levels of radon can be reduced to 4 pCi/L more than 95 percent of the time. The following table shows the lifetime Health risk of living with Radon for smokers, nonsmokers and the general population. From the table we can see that an increase in Radon level from 4 to 8 pCi/L will increase the lifetime risk of lung cancer for the general population from 2.3 to 4.5%.”

www.nrdc.org/experts/bemnet-alemayehu/radon-and-fracking-new-study

“A new study at The University of Toledo connects the proximity of fracking to higher household concentrations of radon gas, the second leading cause of lung cancer in the U.S.

Measuring and geocoding data from 118,421 homes across all 88 counties in Ohio between 2007 and 2014, scientists found that closer distance to the 1,162 fracking wells is linked to higher indoor radon concentrations.

"The shorter the distance a home is from a fracking well, the higher the radon concentration. The larger the distance, the lower the radon concentration," Dr. Ashok Kumar, Distinguished University Professor and chair of the UToledo Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, said.

The study also found the average radon concentrations among all tested homes across the state are higher than safe levels outlined by U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and World Health Organization standards. The average is 5.76 pCi/l, while the EPA threshold is 4.0 pCi/l. The postal code 43557 in the city of Stryker has the highest radon concentration at 141.85 pCi/l for this data set.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190618083347.htm

Discovereads · 23/09/2022 09:25

@inheritanceshiteagain And in case you don’t believe the wastewater from fracking is radioactive….

Understanding why fracking wastewater contains radioactive waste
”RESEARCHERS at Dartmouth College, US, have released a study explaining the transfer of radium to wastewater during hydraulic fracturing for oil and gas extraction. An understanding of the mechanisms involved could lead to the development of strategies to mitigate wastewater production.”

”During hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, fluid is pumped underground at high pressure to break apart rock and create fractures which oil and natural gas can flow through. A common practice is to use “slick water”, which is a combination of water, a proppant – typically sand – and a mixture of chemicals. After the hydraulic pressure has been dropped the proppant holds the fractures open. Friction reducers, usually a polyacrylamide, are a critical component added to increase fluid flow. Other chemicals, such as biocides, surfactants, and scale inhibitors can also be added.

Once the pressure has been dropped slick-water returns to the surface as wastewater which is salty and highly toxic. It contains toxins such as barium (Ba) and radioactive radium (Ra). As Ra decays it releases a cascade of other elements, such as radon, that collectively generate high radioactivity.”
www.thechemicalengineer.com/news/understanding-why-fracking-wastewater-contains-radioactive-waste/

CaptainSamCarter · 23/09/2022 09:30

Wow the Tory bots brigaded this thread pretty fast didn't they.

Laughing at the idea that fracking will lead to higher prices. Presumably that's in the areas where there is no fracking and the house prices of people in Lancashire etc don't matter?

tiger2691 · 23/09/2022 09:38

Uk shale is too plastic, compared to the USA shale. An awful lot of water is required, even though they reuse it, plus the chemicals in the water can get in the table and end up in our tap water supply.

Dreikanter · 23/09/2022 09:53

The UK doesn’t have the large continuous shale gas reservoirs that the US has, so it’s going to be a pointless exercise.

www.ed.ac.uk/impact/opinion/uk-is-280-million-years-late-for-fracking-boom

Meanwhile, Jackdaw has the potential to supply 6% of the UK’s gas.

www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/shell-develop-jackdaw-gas-project-north-sea-2022-07-25/

SleeplessInEngland · 23/09/2022 09:57

Wow the Tory bots brigaded this thread pretty fast didn't they.

A few years ago they'd be saying fracking was a bad because, of course, that was the official tory party line. But now Rees-Mogg likes it, it's gospel.

1dayatatime · 23/09/2022 10:26

poshme · 22/09/2022 20:50

Solar panels take up a lot of space (if in fields)
Surely we need to think about food security as well?

Solar farms currently take up less land use in the UK than golf courses.

Also a significant amount of farm land is used to grow rape seed oil for use in bio diesel which is an energy use. In the same way solar farms produce electricity which can be used for electric vehicles.

Cornettoninja · 23/09/2022 12:35

Luckydip1 · 23/09/2022 09:21

While we wait 50 years to be able to be self sufficient from renewables we need energy and the more self sufficient we can be the better so I say bring on the fracking and stop the nimbyism.

Fracking isn’t a short term solution to implement, we’re still talking in terms of years not months and levels of resources are debatable. There are figures that suggest shale resource has been overestimated by up to 80% in the UK.

There are an awful lot of ‘mights’ surrounding fracking when other energy investments have more certainties.

GasPanic · 23/09/2022 12:41

If fracking "won't work" in the UK because of the wrong geological conditions then none of the oil businesses will bother to apply for a license to do it - so there's nothing to worry about.

They aren't stupid.

Cornettoninja · 23/09/2022 13:20

GasPanic · 23/09/2022 12:41

If fracking "won't work" in the UK because of the wrong geological conditions then none of the oil businesses will bother to apply for a license to do it - so there's nothing to worry about.

They aren't stupid.

Let’s see how it plays out. The government will be investing in energy given the global picture. If it was as simple as leaving it to market forces to decide investment then it wouldn’t be worth lifting the ban on current evidence. However, it’s more likely the current government will be directly investing in companies taking up the opportunity to ‘attract’ them. (I use ‘’ because I’m certain these deals already exist unofficially).

There might not be much money in UK fracking, that doesn’t mean there’s no money to be made from the Treasury.

JazbayGrapes · 23/09/2022 13:25

Yes, its a very bad decision, but at this timing nobody will protest.

JassyRadlett · 23/09/2022 13:37

On the bright side, they're at least being ideologically consistent and also lifting the ban on onshore wind. Which is a lot more certain, a lot cheaper and a lot faster to deploy.

JS87 · 23/09/2022 14:49

JassyRadlett · 23/09/2022 13:37

On the bright side, they're at least being ideologically consistent and also lifting the ban on onshore wind. Which is a lot more certain, a lot cheaper and a lot faster to deploy.

Well that's something I suppose.

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