To think the govt is mad for revoking the fracking ban?

[ShangPie]

That’s just it really - I can’t believe that the government has revoked the fracking ban.

It’s all kinds of wrong for loads of reasons:

Seriously damages the environment locally
Contributes to global climate change
Makes us more dependent on fossil fuels
Not-insignificant risk of manmade earthquakes near fracking sites!

To name just a few that come to mind…

Can we get this govt petition up to the 10,000 needed to reconsider it?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/614611

An unsubstantiated claim

www.desmog.com/2022/07/01/government-advisor-repeats-russia-funded-anti-fracking-protests-myth/

YANBU but it's Jacob Rees-Mogg. He'll strip back workers' rights and have everyone down the mines and in the mills ASAP. He doesn't give a flying fox about the environment or what the public thinks.

A shame Rees Mogg, Steve Baker, McBride and other brexitiers aren't quite so keen on looking at areas Russia really has promoted and been delighted at the outcomes of.

Jacob Rees Mogg as Energy Secretary… my eyes just rolled so hard I got a migraine

I suppose we should all be thankful his energy policy isn't water wheels, donkey-powered windmills and witch-burning-stoves for all 🙄

Tsh. What does the head of Cuadrilla know that JRM doesn't. I mean, just because he has actual experience of the problems!

Actually I believe the then Secretary General of NATO when he said it in 2014.

“I have met allies who can report that Russia, as part of their sophisticated information and disinformation operations, engaged actively with so-called non-governmental organisations – environmental organisations working against shale gas – to maintain European dependence on imported Russian gas.”

Do I believe that some villagers from Lancashire are really FSB agents? Don't be daft. Just ordinary common or garden NIMBYs - just like people objecting to HS2 or a new housing development (usually while bemoaning the state of the railways, the shortage of housing, or in this case the cost of energy).

Stirring up opposition on a larger scale however, through disinformation campaigns and NGOs is much more the Russian style.

I agree however that it's years away, so as a decision has only been made now, it will be too late anyway. If it were me I'd not be bothering by this point.

Gas produced is sold as is North Sea gas priced at the global commodity rate, there is zero cost benefit to the UK consumer.

An increase in supply will lower prices (or in this case stop prices rising as a result of supply cuts elsewhere). That applies to all consumers, around the world, but particularly European ones who can be directly supplied by pipeline rather than the more expensive LNG ships. So "zero cost benefit" is a bare-faced lie.

You also overlook the jobs created and the tax paid, which we all benefit from in one form or another.

No more or less so than any of the other claims of Russian influence which have been made in the last decade. I certainly trust a former NATO Secretary General (and former PM of Denmark) more than I trust some pressure group.

It's also pretty easy to see a motive for Russia wanting to stop competition in the gas market.

Aren't watermills and windmills renewable then?

Not sure how a donkey powers a windmill though...

He hasn't been with them for more than a decade and Cuadrilla disputed his claims.

I said before that fracking won't heat our homes this winter - it's a medium term project, not a short term one. It's a futile gesture. I don't however subscribe to the notion that it's inherently evil - at least no more than any other fossil fuel extraction, which I bet you lot fill your cars up with.

Hmmm … Almost wouldn’t mind the fracking if the govt had had actually bothered to do all the other earth-friendly stuff like solar, wind farms, insulation etc etc

they haven’t so… with fracking & nuclear being extra-long-term options… they’re not really helping the situation are they?

are there any energy experts on here I wonder?

An increase in supply will lower prices (or in this case stop prices rising as a result of supply cuts elsewhere). That applies to all consumers, around the world, but particularly European ones who can be directly supplied by pipeline rather than the more expensive LNG ships. So "zero cost benefit" is a bare-faced lie

But the founder of Caudrilla, who let’s face it knows more than anyone posting on this thread by a large margin, has said:

it has been used safely around the world, across the US, with no problems” – and of shale gas, but said the geology of the UK and the densely populated nature of the British countryside made it impossible to set up a commercially viable fracking business here

So it’s pretty clear that there are no significant gains to be made as it’s not commercially viable. You’re not going to force the price down if you can’t easily and safely extract significant amounts- which you can’t!

It’s just pointless. The more I read/hear the more I’m convinced the UK just hasn’t got the raw materials to generate much from fracking.

Coming so soon after watching this cabinet line their mates pockets with covid borne projects that were badly managed I’m not up for giving them my support with fracking. They need to go back to the drawing board (preferably one that doesn’t rely on funding from their donors).

YANBU
It's stupid, short sighted, environmentally unsound and unpopular.

Ddraig Touché! I meant to highlight his generally antiquated approach and views, as Energy Secretary for the 14th Century, but inadvertently picked some renewable energy examples.

For the donkey-windmill, I was thinking about this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_mill but understand that #notallwindmills

Perhaps a better option from the RH Haunted Victorian Pencil would be whale oil furnaces? No matter, seems we agree that it’s short sighted and not really worth the bother

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/20/fact-check-why-fracking-uk-will-not-reduce-energy-bills

According to that best-case scenario, fracking would not produce enough gas to meet even 1% of UK demand for more than three years. After an immediate start, we would still have to wait until the late 2020s for more than 5% of UK demand to be met by domestically produced shale gas.

IMHO fracking does NOTHING to solve short term energy price problems, and if we are looking at the mid to long term we need to think more about renewables and nuclear and energy saving measures.

I don’t think there’s a drawing board in the world this government couldn’t make money on through corruption. Ever since the boat company without boats they seem to have realised that they do this in plain sight and the British public don’t bat an eyelid.

At the moment they just need to siphon off enough money as possible before they lose the next election. If you find an alternative solution to fracking they’ll be there with a small company with minimal assessed to receive a government contract.

I was part of the anti-fracking campaign here in the North West (the “industrial” north so who cares if we are subject to more pollution) .. and I am not funded by Russia.

Pro-frackers - when they are down the road from you, drilling under your home, and Fracking.. you might start to appreciate why we don’t want it. Good luck getting house insurance with Fracking down the road. Also, if you own land, you can be forced to allow fracking to happen.

Its not like an oil well, where you dig one hole … it’s a fresh drill for every frack.

This will not solve any energy problem, even if they flew into “full scale production” it would not solve anything. We need to stop subsiding Carbon, and get investing in renewables.

I am dusting off my “Frack Off” banners …

It also takes a huge amount of water (all of which needs to be transported to site).. which comes back up filled with chemicals (well the stuff that’s not leaked into the surrounding earth), which then has to be transported somewhere else for treatment.

@ExtraOnions I've begun speaking to a number of the Frack Free Flyde folks on Facebook through our mutual dislike of a man with the surname Tarjanyi / Frackman and his recent anti vax nonsense. Through their 'blocked by' page I've learnt so much about the anti fracking movement and I'm horrified that they have reversed the moratorium.
I will be supporting you all

Frack free Lancashire not frack free flyde

Nope, as the amounts needed to lower prices globally would be at North Sea gas levels at the very least and as the amounts are as yet unknown (predicted to be relatively low) so its not a bare faced lie at all.

Experts say the amounts produced wont effect world prices but isn't being sold as a solution to UK energy needs? not those of Italy or Germany ?

Yes some job creation but tiny in the grand scheme of things, a windfall tax would generate many times more cash.....

I'm afraid you are just another Tory lacky, whatever policy they came up with, you'd defend it, they can do no wrong for you.

We have bought from Russia gas and oil equivalent to 5% of our annual use. If we can produce that amount domestically, we would not be competing in the world market.
Conventional wells can produce some and according to the British Geological Survey there is a good amount of gas in the shales of Lancashire.
The current work is to determine the proportion that can be extracted. Best Guess so far is only about 20%. We do need to know.
I have seen wells in Dorset near Durdle Door and Wytch Farm nr Poole harbour. They are less obtrusive than a shed + some pipework.
Oil wells in Lincolnshire are sending a road tanker per day to a chemical works at Immingham.
A Tesla battery factory in California run by PG&E caught fire this week.

If you find an alternative solution to fracking

Funny you should say that, I’ve been toying with the idea of hamsters on wheels on an industrial scale…. I reckon they’d go for it

We have bought from Russia gas and oil equivalent to 5% of our annual use. If we can produce that amount domestically, we would not be competing in the world market

but they’re not going to supply domestically they’re going to sell it so we’re still subject to market forces, which the amount shale could provide, is barely a drop in the ocean when it comes to impact on prices.

Gas oil etc is extracted in UK by private companies under licence, they sell it to the highest bidder i.e the World market.

If we produced 150% of our own gas, it would still be priced at world prices.

The industry is not state owned, it should be though, would have cost a few 10s of billions to part nationalise and would have meant far cheaper energy for as long as we liked, as France did with its own nuclear industry.

France is not borrowing 150 billion just for a 18 month fix.