To say that when applying for jobs some people should just make more effort?

[cocktailclub]

I hear all the time that people have applied for 'hundreds' of jobs and not even had an interview. I hear this from graduates as well as more mature candidates.
I've been recruiting to my team over the last year and advertised about 7 or 8 roles. They BFF e been fairly popular and I have sifted around 120 cvs per role in the first two weeks.
My point is that only about 10% of applicants ensure their cv is tailored to the role.
I spend about 3 minutes looking at each applicant so need to be impressed quickly.
Most CVs start with a statement looking for a career in science' when the role is complaints manager for example.
By making a few changes to a CV so it highlights the skills for the role you want would be easy to do but very few even try.
So I'm not surprised people have no luck in their job search when they can't be bothered with the application.
AIBU to think this is the reason they are rejected?

[hardboiledeggs]

@anotherbrewplease

They BFF e been fairly popular and I have sifted around 120 cvs per role in the first two weeks

Can you please make a bit more effort with your opening post, as I can't really understand it?

Well done on sifting through a lot of CVs and critiquing them.

😂

[CollieWobble22]

1950s recruiters 🤣🤣

[averageavocado]

@BoredWithLife

"I spend about 3 minutes looking at each applicant so need to be impressed quickly."

Just curious, if you are only willing to give there application 3 minutes, how long are they supposed to give creating it? I get that it is often seen that the employee is "giving" someone a job/chance but the same is true in reverse the applicant is "giving" the company their skills.

Why do you expect serious effort on the applicants part if you're only willing to offer 3 minutes?

thats pretty standard, when you are trying to recruit, you want someone who bothers to make an effort, you can (nomally) only choose 1, and why bother with someone who isnt that invested.

its not hard to tweak your cv for the role you are applying for

[latetothefisting]

To be fair the same applies both ways.
When I was last job hunting about 7 years ago a huge number of the application forms were ridiculous - either over complicated (asking you to enter every single gcse separately for a role that needed at least a degree), or didn't work at all, asked you to enter all the information in your cv and then attach the cv as well, asked you to provide evidence of about 15 essential criteria then only gave 300 words to do it in....

Phone interviews outsourced to hiring companies that couldn't answer any of my questions about the job....

It should be a rule that all hiring staff have to fill in their own form/go through their own application process before it goes live!

Just an application could take several hours so if people are trying to do several a day/week it's a huge chunk of time, particularly if they are already working full time!

[Eeksteek]

I just applied for a job. I don’t interview well, so I need a strong application, and the job was a very good fit for me flexibility-wise, so I put a lot of effort in, and I got offered the job. It took hours and hours. For only just beyond minimal wage. Obviously I filled in the ten page application form, and spent several hours thinking about the questions I answered. Then I went to an interview day, with four forms of ID. The interview was fine, just a bit of hanging around (I’ve had to put in whole days for entry level jobs before, so far, so good). I read everything sent to me pre-interview, researched the company, reviewed my experience and tried to consider what may be asked at interview based on my knowledge of the role and how I would use incidences from the past to answer them. They sent a list of possible questions, and I spent two days practicing answers and trying to think up positive ways to frame ‘I would like to make some money with as little stress and impact on my family as possible’ and tosh about where I see myself in five years and what my goals are (keep my kid alive. Not freeze!). They asked none of these questions.

Ten days later, Then they asked me to submit ID to their online portal (again), for THREE references, and another lot of online portal box ticking.

Then they sent a THIRTY PAGE post application pack for ‘preferred candidates’. (Don’t think I do have the job at all, actually) which required (among other utterly tedious and unnecessary things) a work history since I left full-time application with zero gaps (I’m 44. It took ages and no one will read it, because it’s not at all relevant) my references (again) and another lot of box ticking about criminal records and right to work etc etc (which I have ALREADY DONE. Possibly twice)

Apparently, if anyone ever wades through that and my referees can string two words together, I then get to have ANOTHER interview, where they will check my ID for a third time (which has already been done and photographed in person and submitted online. What they will gain from doing it a third time via teams is anyone’s guess. I can’t imagine). Then there are two training days, probably about an hour to learn how to do the job and the rest mandatory crap. If I make it through them, I can start earning money. I will not make payroll for October, even if I do start on the 10th and don’t expect to see any money until the end of November.

This is for a temporary fixed term contract of 12 weeks. It pays slightly above minimum wage, but very little. I applied in August, and expected to start on October 10, but I think that is very unlikely now. They have just cancelled the training days which should have been next week, and will rebook when they get references, so I can’t book child or petcare, because I don’t know when it will be. I applied because I am broke and needed the money, but it seems beyond ludicrous that a job I am massively overqualified for can require SO much of my time and effort, and so long before I see a penny. For 11 quid an hour for 12 weeks. It’s utterly disproportionate.

I appreciate this is not a high level role. But I am still a person, and my time is HUGELY valuable to me and my child, and that has obviously been considered by no one. Clearly if the job truly requires this lengthy and complex process of vetting of my skill and experience to get, it should not be so poorly paid. And if it does not, I shouldn’t have to wade through it. You can’t have it both ways, employers!

[Darbs76]

@ADecadeAndAHalf

@Darbs76 and how many jobs did you apply for alongside applying for that promotion? Did you read up on the application process for each one? It sounds like you only applied for the one job. If you multiply that "so much time" you spent for 3-4 jobs a week, do you not see that people just don't have time amongst their other commitments?

As pp said, it's soul destroying. My last interview went something like this:
spend half a day writing cover letter and tailoring cv.
Apply - fill out online form ~1 hr
get automatic confirmation.
Hear nothing. Wait. Assume it's unsuccessful.
Monday evening 5 and a half weeks later, get phone call at 730pm. Interview on Wednesday at 9.
Cancel everything on Tuesday to prepare.
Wednesday start interview. Within the initial conversation about job role and discussion of duties went something like
interviewer "no, this is a full time role".
Co-interviewer "she wrote on her cover letter 20-40%" ( I did, in bold).
Me " the job is advertised as part time, any %"
Interviewer "well that's a mistake. There's no point continuing the interview, thank your for your time."

And you wonder why people don't sit and tailor their cv to each and every job they apply for?

I applied for 6 jobs and got 2 offers. I’d always adjust each application as it’s always obvious if you throw in a statement geared for another job. You need to adjust it for the requirements of each role.

[BlooberryBiskits]

@CollieWobble22

@Rapidtango welcome to the 3.6% unemployed club!!

Frequently being told by Hiring Managers / HR that I'm "older than our usual applicant!"..... I'm 36!!

People always say "they aren't allowed to say that" but they always do...

😔

@Rapidtango : sorry to read about your experience

Are you also applying for temp/contract roles? This might be a way to get a role quickly so you can refresh your ‘employed’ status & then move on

[CollieWobble22]

@ADecadeAndAHalf I had the same type of interview. It was advertised as full time but said part time would be considered.

When I got to the interview, I mentioned this and I was immediately asked to leave by the woman who was interviewing me. It was so humiliating.

I actually complained to the Head Office about this woman and explained how she treated me. They were extremely embarrassed and apologised.

I went on to work elsewhere but for the same industry. We had this company on the supplier list and it was part of my role to choose who we used for that particular service. Obviously they lost all of our £200k per year business as I refused to work with the dragon (it was client facing and she was horrid!)

[averageavocado]

@Bubblebubblebah

As a woman of fertile age and an immigrant, I actually veryuch welcome blind recruitments😁

as a recruiter I like them

[averageavocado]

@Dreamstate

If someone is only spending 3 minutes to review a CV, this will be why I just take the key words from the job application and drop them into my CV, job done. CV is just a way to get you into the door for an interview. I won't spend hours perfectly tailoring my CV if you only have 3 minutes to look at it.

the 3 mins is the starter
then if you get past that, then we look deeper in

[Rapidtango]

Blooberry, everything. I'm applying for temp, contract, full time, part time. It's incredibly demoralising, especially when we keep being told businesses are desperate for staff. Our local council was after 6 customer services assistants, both full and part-time, minimum wage roles, pretty standard requirements (good communication skills etc etc), it took 90 minutes to complete the application, including 3 long form STAR questions and I found out yesterday my application is not being progressed. I'm sure it's probably a combination of my age, the fact I've been self employed for years, have no current referees, but it just seems that the application process these days is pretty much 'computer says no' and there's nothing I can do about it.

Considering I have 10 years working life left, I'm probably a better bet than many younger people who will want to progress their careers and move in a few years, whereas I'm happy to stay put.

[Nocaloriesinchocolate]

Many years ago, when, shockingly, disability discrimination was rife, I wrote in an application that one of my hobbies was teaching dance. I also, mistakenly, ticked the box saying I was disabled. In those days “disabled” meant “in a wheelchair” and one main reason why I was offered an interview was because they wanted to know how I could be in a wheelchair and teach dance! Shocking to think of now. (I got the job - which was nothing to do with dance and which could have been done in a wheelchair).

[YouSirNeighMmmm]

@PurBal

Applying for jobs 20 years ago: send generic CV you have kept updated, personalised covering letter, send to hiring manager, receive reply from hiring manager (yes or no). Total time spent: 30 minutes.
Applying for jobs today: take CV, log into some kind of online portal, input data into digital form (can’t always straight copy and past because there are multiple boxes in different formats), answer three questions circa 200 words why you should get the job over someone else, complete form on inclusion, export to pdf, attach to email, write cover email, send to hiring manager, wait a month and if you don’t hear assume you didn’t get the job. Total time spent: 3 hours
If your desperate for work, imagine doing 10 or 30 of these kind of applications. Depending on the job you can also get additional online assessments.
True CVs shouldn’t be personalised to the job but an overview of the applicants background. Covering letters should be personalised and highlight particular relevant skills.

100%. I am hoping to never have to work for anyone again, and I am fairly experienced / professional so online forms are less likely than for more junior jobs, but I genuinely don't know how younger people tolerate it. Like having to shop around for energy suppliers (it would be better if there was one good price that we all automatically pay) it is a complete waste of time seemingly imposed by those with power simply because they don't care one little bit about the value of ordinary people's time.

Here is my CV, same as I send to everyone. (Caveat. If you are returning to an old industry maybe you'd cut down the detail about your current job and add detail to you last job in the industry you are returning to).

Here is a cover letter which helps decide whether I might be a good fit for the job and company over and above the general stuff in the CV.

[smooththecat]

I wouldn’t tweak my CV, a CV is a very general overview of what you’ve done in your career, how do you tweak that? A covering statement is where you say how you meet the person specification. Most recruiters wanting a specific format use an application portal rather than CV + statement. Most roles specifically forbid CVs these days anyway.

[Eeksteek]

I read a Facebook thingy where an organisation said they sent out the interview questions in advance, and were astounded that the quality of the answers they received were so much higher.

I suck at interviews. They are HIGHLY pressured for candidates. There’s a lot riding on them, a lot of etiquette and no room for error, you have no knowledge of the context or culture, or the personalities of people concerned and you have to present yourself in your best light while not being a self absorbed dick, and then answer stupid surprise questions, designed to catch you out.

How many bloody jobs are like that, really? Surely you want candidates who are well prepared, who can establish relationships, consider their answers based on what they already know. Few jobs a require such snap decisions with so little context, background or in such isolation. You’re not seeing people in any sort of realistic light. It’s like diffusing a bomb. I can never think of anything remotely relevant, until I’m on the way home. How many decisions in this job really require immediate answers with, no thinking time, no reflection, no background knowledge, no knowledge of the people you’re working with (or against) no reasrarch or fact checking and no discussion with colleagues or refining?

I’m guessing very, very few. James Bond, maybe. Everyone else seems to be in bloody meetings all the time, which is exactly the opposite.

[Eeksteek]

What I’m really struggling with though, what seems absolutely impenetrable to me, is the descriptions of actual jobs. I’ve a clinical background, and I totally get that there is a certain amount of job or industry specific jargon going on. That’s fine. But from reading ads, I cannot fathom what these people actually do all day. It sounds like utter bullshit to me. You would think I am patently unsuitable for most ‘business’ jobs based on my understanding of what they are. And yet that is not true. I’ve got two degrees and have run a successful business, aside from my clinical career. I must have LOADS of skills, I pick things up quickly and I like learning and getting better at things. But I have no idea how to translate that for private sector businesses, and I can’t understand what you’re asking for. It’s like another language.

[Dixiechickonhols]

@CollieWobble22

@ADecadeAndAHalf I had the same type of interview. It was advertised as full time but said part time would be considered.

When I got to the interview, I mentioned this and I was immediately asked to leave by the woman who was interviewing me. It was so humiliating.

I actually complained to the Head Office about this woman and explained how she treated me. They were extremely embarrassed and apologised.

I went on to work elsewhere but for the same industry. We had this company on the supplier list and it was part of my role to choose who we used for that particular service. Obviously they lost all of our £200k per year business as I refused to work with the dragon (it was client facing and she was horrid!)

Good result! I do think companies forget they don’t exist in a bubble and people will work with them in future especially in niche industries or be potential customers.

Part time is a nightmare. They usually don’t advertise the hours. Makes a huge difference eg 10-2 suits mums but students don’t waste time applying, 6-10 suit students etc.
Had a quick look on indeed and only 1 pt locally has clear advert proper days and hours - a local well regarded butchers (gone further up in my estimation for a clear advert). The subway and sushi national chain ones witter on but no indication of hours or days.

I need to work around college but can do any evening and weekend and live at end of road and can walk here in 5 mins is surely what recruiter needs know not war and peace application on why I’ve a burning desire to be a ‘sandwich artist’

[Rapidtango]

Eeksteek, one of the jobs I've applied for has the following as a job description.

'We provide an enabling service to all vital services of Xx City Council. The Business Support teams are flexible and responsive and there will be opportunities to move between teams to gain experience of the services across the council.

If you are a team player who is enthusiastic and committed to providing an excellent customer focussed service, we would welcome your application.

You will be working in a reactive team supporting one of the many services within the Council. You will have excellent communication skills, the ability to deal with challenging situations and work to statutory or regulatory deadlines. You should have the ability to multitask and deal with changing priorities. It would be an advantage if you have previous experience of working with a case management system. You should be fully familiar with data protection and the use of MS Office / Office 365.'

And that's it. If it wasn't so frustrating it would be hilarious.

[WhatNoRaisins]

I remember a thread about NHS jobs where it was claimed they have no choice but to outsource their adverts to a department that does a poor job. Why? I thought in most jobs if you did a crap job at a minimum you'd be expected to reflect on why your work was so poor and how you can improve.

[Bubblebubblebah]

@GoingThatWay

When we recruit, we ask for four essential things which are:

Must be able to work evenings and weekends.
Must have in date licence.
Must be fit and able bodied.
Must be have experience.

Some of the applications are anything but.
We get applications from single parents who say they can't work evenings and weekends, but can work daytime.
We don't work daytime!
They have no licence, could we provide it?
No!
They are disabled.
Definitely no!
They have no experience but are willing to learn.
No!
If I didn't follow the criteria, then I would be risking being sued!
We once tried advertising via the job centre. It was a complete waste of everyone's time. Never again.

Oh same.
In one job we had number of applicants requesting morning work. The place wasn't even open in morning. The hours were clearly set up in advert AND on our website...

[Dixiechickonhols]

@Rapidtango

Eeksteek, one of the jobs I've applied for has the following as a job description.

'We provide an enabling service to all vital services of Xx City Council. The Business Support teams are flexible and responsive and there will be opportunities to move between teams to gain experience of the services across the council.

If you are a team player who is enthusiastic and committed to providing an excellent customer focussed service, we would welcome your application.

You will be working in a reactive team supporting one of the many services within the Council. You will have excellent communication skills, the ability to deal with challenging situations and work to statutory or regulatory deadlines. You should have the ability to multitask and deal with changing priorities. It would be an advantage if you have previous experience of working with a case management system. You should be fully familiar with data protection and the use of MS Office / Office 365.'

And that's it. If it wasn't so frustrating it would be hilarious.

Sounds like business admin support? Is there a facility to contact someone for more info or an informal chat.

[BlooberryBiskits]

@Rapidtango

I'm sure it's probably a combination of my age, the fact I've been self employed for years, have no current referees, but it just seems that the application process these days is pretty much 'computer says no' and there's nothing I can do about it.

I think you have diagnosed correctly- can you reach out to your clients for a reference perhaps?

[OriginalUsername2]

@tuttifruit

Might be hard for you but it's even harder for job applicants who are expected to fill out multiple forms and individual cover letters and CVs for each job application - which often turn out to be an inactive/internal post that they have no chance at anyway. Use a recruitment agency if you cba to sift through bad ones

This. It’s ridiculous. One job application can take a whole day.

[thecatsthecats]

@Eeksteek

What I’m really struggling with though, what seems absolutely impenetrable to me, is the descriptions of actual jobs. I’ve a clinical background, and I totally get that there is a certain amount of job or industry specific jargon going on. That’s fine. But from reading ads, I cannot fathom what these people actually do all day. It sounds like utter bullshit to me. You would think I am patently unsuitable for most ‘business’ jobs based on my understanding of what they are. And yet that is not true. I’ve got two degrees and have run a successful business, aside from my clinical career. I must have LOADS of skills, I pick things up quickly and I like learning and getting better at things. But I have no idea how to translate that for private sector businesses, and I can’t understand what you’re asking for. It’s like another language.

It makes me fume a bit when job descriptions like this then twat on about equality, diversity and inclusion. Because good EDI hiring means using minimal viable criteria, and clear language. It's about hiring people who COULD do the job using applicable experience, not doing a jargon dump that means even people who work in the field scratch their heads.

[Rapidtango]

Blooberry, I ran a B&B - so not so much clients as guests, and they would obviously tell a prospective employer I cook a mean 'Full Scottish ' and the loos were spotless but it's a bit of an odd 'relationship'. When I've actually managed to speak to an HR person, I've explained the situation, offered on line reviews as a way of getting an idea of who I am (18 years worth!). My customer service skills are second to none, but I don't fit in a required box. I have years of prior professional experience, but many of my previous referees are, well, dead, or I have no idea where they are!

Sorry, I seem to have hijacked OP's thread with my tales of woe .

Anyway, I'm doing some online training to try and improve my skills so onwards and upwards.