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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That I have a lump in my throat more for the class system than the funeral

325 replies

JessicaJoens5 · 19/09/2022 19:53

Sat here with a lump in my throat after watching the funeral but I think it's more to do with realising just how unfair life is and what a lottery life can be.

A lot of people in this country are living on the breadline, children are born into poverty, using food banks, lots of homeless, children moving into hotels whilst their parents wait for a house and so much more. Now this is not a thread to bash the royal family as people but I can't help but feel a bit down at the fact that a lot of their lives are luck - luck to be born into a life of privilege or luck of marrying into it.

Now I'm not saying it's easy to be a royal but I know if I had a choice of choosing to be a person born into privilege with the risk of press following me or another person who is living in a tiny flat or house, struggling to pay bills and having to use food banks whilst working a minimum wage job, I know which one I'd choose.

Not really sure what the aim of this thread is but maybe other people had similar feelings from the funeral?

OP posts:
Flymyway · 20/09/2022 07:41

Cillery. But doesn't it make it even more grotesque? That their are children starving in some places and this show of wealth is apparently appropriate in our world

OMG12 · 20/09/2022 07:50

@Purplefoxes

@OMG12 "Peoples views change as they get older"

Really, that radically? Were you antimonarchist then? What changed your mind exactly?

oh God I was anti everything as everybody should be when young. Subscriber to the socialist worker, idealistic, convinced I was right, the old people hadn’t a clue. Four legs good, two legs bag, the whole 9 yards.

what happened? Life, experience. Seeing the shit for what it was. Hearing shouts of “four legs even better”. Elected heads of state coming and going. Realising actually most people in power are corrupt, watching politicians arguing over crap, nothing really changing amidst the arguing of politics. In contrast seeing the value of continuity, the value of someone who can represent the country not playing a constant “pick me” game. The value of continuity over 100s of years.

"But do you think and other head of state is better value for money? Look at the US president."

Yes if they can actually change things for better as at least there is hope, and they are elected as part of a democracy. As people have said the monarchy can't technically (shouldn't!) influence politics. Literally the all they can do is smile, wave and cut ribbons or pretend to empathise with people, basically be a toothless figurehead. Of course the flip side is a presidency can change things for worse too! That is the risk. But they would be voted in and not born in. So if we don't like them we can enact change in a few years via democratic means.

but this happens because a president is head of government as well as state. Being elected in and out every few years is divisive and lacks continuity. By separating the two roles it gives democratic account for politics whilst ensuring the head of state can stay out of the divided nature of politics. People rarely respect democracy, how many Corbyn supporters accepted Boris? Not many. It’s helpful to have a person who can unify and represent beyond politics-politicians the world over recognised this

*to think getting rid of the monarchy would suddenly solve societal problems is naive to say the least"

Of course it is and noone is saying that! But they are part of a wider problem. And certainly to redistribute some of those billions and make them entirely self funded or paying normal amounts of tax like other citizens rather than placing any burden for their events on the taxpayer that can't hurt can it?

because much of their wealth is necessary to maintain the family. A lot of it is the wealth of the crown or the office being held. It’s not theirs to dispose of. They are custodians. Are they wealthy in monetary terms yes, do I think they need to be compensated for the crap they have to endure -yes. Do I think they’re value for money -yes. I’d rather support them that some chancer who can’t be arsed to work or decided to have 5 kids they can’t support.

*it is usually -this person has more money than me, I want to drag them down to my level."

You'd have to drag them down a very very very very long way to be even close to my level 🤣 This is the thinly veiled jealousy argument isn't it! Nope these people are head of state and we represent the state yet have zero say in it. They do not pay tax yet we do. What I want is fairness and equality not for them to be the exact same level as me. They should pay the same taxes I have to, give me a good reason they should be exempt? Why should I pay for their funeral when I have to pay for mine? Because much of their wealth maintains the institution. The crown contributes many millions to the treasury each year. The queen voluntarily paid the equivalent of income tax, they will pay all indirect taxes the same as you or I. Are we talking IHT then? The majority of the assets belong to the crown, even personal assets like paintings etc will be unlikely to be sold. The assets aren’t readily convertible. If each generation have to fund Iht on such assets the family would soon be bankrupt- no doubt you would enjoy that.

"Have you considered getting rid of most of your assets to support those less privileged than yourself eg people without clean water. If not, why do you think you should cling onto your accidental privilege whilst others suffer"

Yes I regularly give up a good proportion of my salary to charity which may as a percentage be more than the royal family comparatively. My 'privilege' is not accidental, I did not come into by birthright or inheritance I earned it entirely through my wages and personal sacrifice. I've never had any help from anyone. Yet I gladly donate as much as I am able to (whilst still feeding my family) to charity. No one is asking them to give up ALL their wealth. Just to be taxed the same as everyone else. And to streamline and fund their own security and their events etc. No one person needs 7 houses. You cannot live in all 7 at anyone time. The funeral was funded by the state. How much do you think it cost? Hazard a guess. Prince Charles and Prince William will not be paying inheritance tax as any normal citizen would on the death of their relative and receipt of inheritance. Do you agree with that? If so why? - I’ve answers the iHT point above.

The 7 houses are mainly crown property (although you’ll be pleased to hear that Charles is planning to open more up).

and yes you are privileged through an accident of birth. You were born into an environment where you’re not having to walk miles for dirty water, find food on a rubbish heap. You are markedly more privileged than than the vast majority of the world’s population just by virtue of where you were born, nothing to do with hard work at all, you’re privileged by birth alone in that regard.

KimberleyClark · 20/09/2022 07:55

I’ve thought for some time that old age cannot hold the same fears for the Royals as for the rest of us. They will continue to be valued and feted. They know they will be accommodated in luxury and given the best possible care up until their very last breath. They will never be left lying in their own shit in a hospital or lonely/abused in a substandard care home.

Cillery · 20/09/2022 08:01

Flymyway · 20/09/2022 07:41

Cillery. But doesn't it make it even more grotesque? That their are children starving in some places and this show of wealth is apparently appropriate in our world

I find Putin’s war more grotesque actually. I find the amount of money stockpiled by champagne socialists more grotesque. I find the fact of aid being siphoned off into the pockets of warlords grotesque. I find ‘left wingers’ on the BBC on massive salaries grotesque, don’t you? I find the corruption within the American Democratic Party grotesque too btw. The Queen’s funeral has worked out about 15p a head per capita. Not too much got 70 years service I think. Sponsoring a child in the developing world costs £20 per moth which is something most of us can probably do if it worries us.

dottiedodah · 20/09/2022 08:17

I agree with you.however even if we abolished the monarchy tomorrow, there will always be rich and poor sadly.the us had the Kennedy,and everyone made a big fuss of them .so likely we would in turn be fussing over liz truss dc or whatever

Pyewhacket · 20/09/2022 08:21

Why did you watch it then ?.

Cillery · 20/09/2022 08:21

dottiedodah · 20/09/2022 08:17

I agree with you.however even if we abolished the monarchy tomorrow, there will always be rich and poor sadly.the us had the Kennedy,and everyone made a big fuss of them .so likely we would in turn be fussing over liz truss dc or whatever

Everywhere in the world there is a class system. If we think it only exists in the monarchy we deceive ourselves. Look at North Korea! Everywhere in the world there is a class system. The Soviet Union had the most oppressive class system in the world. At least in Britain we do have a meritocracy still.

KimberleyClark · 20/09/2022 08:27

dottiedodah · 20/09/2022 08:17

I agree with you.however even if we abolished the monarchy tomorrow, there will always be rich and poor sadly.the us had the Kennedy,and everyone made a big fuss of them .so likely we would in turn be fussing over liz truss dc or whatever

JFK was democratically elected by the people. In the US anyone can aspire to be head of state. Here you must be born to it.

QuizzlyBear · 20/09/2022 08:46

Your post perfectly encapsulates why I have such issue with a hereditary monarchy - to venerate and call one family special just for being born into wealth does fill me with a degree of disgust. I don't think it says great things about us as a society.

And yes, I also had these feelings during the 'we're all in it together' speeches to the nation, direct from the gold-encrusted throne... 🙄

KimberleyClark · 20/09/2022 08:50

And the gold piano in the background.

Andante57 · 20/09/2022 08:54

This thread has made me feel a bit better. I've been getting more and more pissed off by the way the death and funeral arrangements have dominated the media to the point where other news was barely covered. I've been watching Al Jazeera for about 3 days

@LakieLady apologies if I’ve got the wrong poster, but weren’t you asking yesterday about the funeral marches? So presumably you were watching some of it?

theworldhas · 20/09/2022 08:56

@Cillery
But you are comparing apples and oranges. When compared against every single one of its Western European neighbours, Britain has worse social mobility and the highest income inequality. And on current trends it’s only down here from now on, with the wealth of the average British family on track to fall below that of the average Polish family within a decade.

The exorbitant wealth of the 0.1% in Britain disguises the fact that the vast majority of Brits have a fairly poor living standard compared to the vast majority of the 50 or so other developed countries in the world.

Stop comparing to sub Saharan Africa and instead compare modern Britain to other nations it was ahead of or on a par with on the 1960s or 70s.

Cillery · 20/09/2022 09:14

theworldhas · 20/09/2022 08:56

@Cillery
But you are comparing apples and oranges. When compared against every single one of its Western European neighbours, Britain has worse social mobility and the highest income inequality. And on current trends it’s only down here from now on, with the wealth of the average British family on track to fall below that of the average Polish family within a decade.

The exorbitant wealth of the 0.1% in Britain disguises the fact that the vast majority of Brits have a fairly poor living standard compared to the vast majority of the 50 or so other developed countries in the world.

Stop comparing to sub Saharan Africa and instead compare modern Britain to other nations it was ahead of or on a par with on the 1960s or 70s.

Depends who you listen to. With the leader of the opposition being worth £7.7 million that might have something to do with it? People who trot these sort of figures out usually have an axe to grind. I know there’s not a mass exodus for these countries. I’ve been to an awful lot of these countries and there is certainly not a better standard of living compared with Britain for the average person

Andante57 · 20/09/2022 10:57

A number of posters have said they don’t know anyone who supports having a Royal Family so if there ain’t going to be a referendum then maybe Labour should fight the next election on the slogan ‘We will abolish the monarchy’.
If they win a landslide victory then we’ll know the country wants to abolish them.

Cillery · 20/09/2022 11:20

Andante57 · 20/09/2022 10:57

A number of posters have said they don’t know anyone who supports having a Royal Family so if there ain’t going to be a referendum then maybe Labour should fight the next election on the slogan ‘We will abolish the monarchy’.
If they win a landslide victory then we’ll know the country wants to abolish them.

Interesting that Starmer has been very cautious about that! The fact is that many voters of all persuasions believe in the monarchy because it unites us. I prefer to have somebody nonpolitical to represent us. I didn’t vote for him but that is the point. Look at the divisions in America and in France over the presidency.

MarshaBradyo · 20/09/2022 11:23

Andante57 · 20/09/2022 10:57

A number of posters have said they don’t know anyone who supports having a Royal Family so if there ain’t going to be a referendum then maybe Labour should fight the next election on the slogan ‘We will abolish the monarchy’.
If they win a landslide victory then we’ll know the country wants to abolish them.

Interesting idea, Starmer might not be the guy to do it though given the Jubilee duty article.

I enjoyed the services yesterday but strongly recoil from any idea of ‘duty’ to engage with it.

Cillery · 20/09/2022 11:24

MarshaBradyo · 20/09/2022 11:23

Interesting idea, Starmer might not be the guy to do it though given the Jubilee duty article.

I enjoyed the services yesterday but strongly recoil from any idea of ‘duty’ to engage with it.

That one’s asking you to do your duty. That’s up to the King

MarshaBradyo · 20/09/2022 11:27

Cillery · 20/09/2022 11:24

That one’s asking you to do your duty. That’s up to the King

Not sure I follow what you mean

I’d choose to keep the monarchy but I don’t warm to a politician talking about a duty to celebrate (for the jubilee at that time)

MarshaBradyo · 20/09/2022 11:31

In any case getting back to the point in pp I don’t think support is there for a manifesto although many on here might be willing to back it and see what happens

Might need a new leader of opposition though

Cillery · 20/09/2022 11:38

MarshaBradyo · 20/09/2022 11:27

Not sure I follow what you mean

I’d choose to keep the monarchy but I don’t warm to a politician talking about a duty to celebrate (for the jubilee at that time)

As we live in a free country it is your privilege not to celebrate. If you lived in North Korea it would be a duty to celebrate the great leader and if you didn’t you would be likely to find yourself in prison. Actually that might apply to other parts of the world too

Databe · 20/09/2022 11:41

I was thinking about the grey faced Queen's staff behind the coffin, who got their marching orders last week. After a life of total service to be turfed out, that sums up how the upper class treat the ordinaries, ie, the majority.

MarshaBradyo · 20/09/2022 11:42

Cillery · 20/09/2022 11:38

As we live in a free country it is your privilege not to celebrate. If you lived in North Korea it would be a duty to celebrate the great leader and if you didn’t you would be likely to find yourself in prison. Actually that might apply to other parts of the world too

I think we’re in agreement more than anything.

I appreciate the freedoms I have, to enjoy / engage or not an event like yesterday. You’re right it’s not a universal freedom. This was only an article that I didn’t respond well to - but it had no power and I can dismiss it and discuss online. I appreciate a lot about where I live so we’re probably more aligned than not

Cillery · 20/09/2022 11:43

Databe · 20/09/2022 11:41

I was thinking about the grey faced Queen's staff behind the coffin, who got their marching orders last week. After a life of total service to be turfed out, that sums up how the upper class treat the ordinaries, ie, the majority.

No it is how any boss treats workers when services are no longer required. In any case I don’t know what is happening to these folks. I don’t know whether they are being offered alternative employment elsewhere.

Corcory · 20/09/2022 13:00

OMG 12

The monarch doesn't just cut ribbons and smile just because they have to be seen to be impartial. The Queen was the best diplomate we ever had, her use of 'soft power' was fantastic. Everyone of any political or religious persuasion wanted to meet her. Her ability to build bridges was fantastic, from being photographed dancing with a black man in the 50s to addressing a banquet in Ireland in Irish Galic made such an impression on so many, just like when Diana hugged HIV patients. They are there to promote peace, to bring people together and she did that very well. The queen certainly had opinions and during her audiences with the PM asked lots of questions and would ask if they had taken certain things into account when coming to decisions making sure they had looked at every eventuality. And yes, the Monarch does have the right not to sign assent for something they don't agree with, however as our system relies on that to never happening. Since we don't have a written constitution.

badgermushrooms · 20/09/2022 13:25

@Cillery With the leader of the opposition being worth £7.7 million that might have something to do with it?

I googled this, because it seemed unlikely. The source appears to be a website called idolnetworth.com which I have never heard of before and which demonstrates its grasp of the facts by also stating he is "a member of: Lawyer". A few years ago one of the tabloids tried to smear him for owning a hugely valuable piece of land which it turned out was a field behind his late parents' very normal semi which his mum had cared for rescued donkeys in; the purported value was based on a local estate agent's guesstimate if it had planning permission for houses which it does not.

Who do you think benefits if we are persuaded to believe this stuff? That all politicians are the same, that we would be silly to believe any of them have principles or integrity, least of all the ones who didn't go to Eton? It's not us, is it.

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