That I have a lump in my throat more for the class system than the funeral

[JessicaJoens5]

Sat here with a lump in my throat after watching the funeral but I think it's more to do with realising just how unfair life is and what a lottery life can be.

A lot of people in this country are living on the breadline, children are born into poverty, using food banks, lots of homeless, children moving into hotels whilst their parents wait for a house and so much more. Now this is not a thread to bash the royal family as people but I can't help but feel a bit down at the fact that a lot of their lives are luck - luck to be born into a life of privilege or luck of marrying into it.

Now I'm not saying it's easy to be a royal but I know if I had a choice of choosing to be a person born into privilege with the risk of press following me or another person who is living in a tiny flat or house, struggling to pay bills and having to use food banks whilst working a minimum wage job, I know which one I'd choose.

Not really sure what the aim of this thread is but maybe other people had similar feelings from the funeral?

Also @Foronenightonly01 I would be that grandparent btw - by which I mean my children are young now. I think the truth may only be fully accepted in 40-50 years.

But the choices the Monarchy has made since 2016 are the first death knell of it, as it has publicly shown that it cannot even serve it's legal purpose.

And if a Monarch who'd been in place 70 years was too cowardly, does anybody really think Charles is going to be of any use to anybody? 🤣

Yes. That is beyond a joke and that's still without even looking at what is in the UK/ GB tax havens.

This exactly.

And that piper is in paid employment

@OMG12 "Peoples views change as they get older"

Really, that radically? Were you antimonarchist then? What changed your mind exactly?

I love tradition, I just don't love that tradition. Or at least I think we could keep some traditional elements and streamline it down, open up houses to the public/turnover to charities etc. Other counties have already done this with their monarchies. Some countries don't have monarchies but still seem to attract tourists etc.

"But do you think and other head of state is better value for money? Look at the US president."

Yes if they can actually change things for better as at least there is hope, and they are elected as part of a democracy. As people have said the monarchy can't technically (shouldn't!) influence politics. Literally the all they can do is smile, wave and cut ribbons or pretend to empathise with people, basically be a toothless figurehead. Of course the flip side is a presidency can change things for worse too! That is the risk. But they would be voted in and not born in. So if we don't like them we can enact change in a few years via democratic means.

*to think getting rid of the monarchy would suddenly solve societal problems is naive to say the least"

Of course it is and noone is saying that! But they are part of a wider problem. And certainly to redistribute some of those billions and make them entirely self funded or paying normal amounts of tax like other citizens rather than placing any burden for their events on the taxpayer that can't hurt can it?

*it is usually -this person has more money than me, I want to drag them down to my level."

You'd have to drag them down a very very very very long way to be even close to my level 🤣 This is the thinly veiled jealousy argument isn't it! Nope these people are head of state and we represent the state yet have zero say in it. They do not pay tax yet we do. What I want is fairness and equality not for them to be the exact same level as me. They should pay the same taxes I have to, give me a good reason they should be exempt? Why should I pay for their funeral when I have to pay for mine?

"Have you considered getting rid of most of your assets to support those less privileged than yourself eg people without clean water. If not, why do you think you should cling onto your accidental privilege whilst others suffer"

Yes I regularly give up a good proportion of my salary to charity which may as a percentage be more than the royal family comparatively. My 'privilege' is not accidental, I did not come into by birthright or inheritance I earned it entirely through my wages and personal sacrifice. I've never had any help from anyone. Yet I gladly donate as much as I am able to (whilst still feeding my family) to charity. No one is asking them to give up ALL their wealth. Just to be taxed the same as everyone else. And to streamline and fund their own security and their events etc. No one person needs 7 houses. You cannot live in all 7 at anyone time. The funeral was funded by the state. How much do you think it cost? Hazard a guess. Prince Charles and Prince William will not be paying inheritance tax as any normal citizen would on the death of their relative and receipt of inheritance. Do you agree with that? If so why?

Interesting comments about the wealth on show and the queen's piper etc.
Firstly, the main thing that was a 'show of wealth' were the crown jewels on the coffin which belong to us not the monarch. All the soldiers and sailors in the parade are paid today whether or not they were there or somewhere else. Of course, there would have been overtime paid to the police etc. but I don't begrudge them that. Yes, we can all think of people who have given service to the public like NHS staff, -like my mum who contracted a very debilitating disease because of it- but they had a choice whether or not to go into that profession. The Queen made a commitment to us at the age of 21 and continued to serve us until she died. I don't know anyone who committed themselves to work until they were 96. As for the idea that she just turned up and opened something, well it was a bit more involved than that. every day parliament was in session she would receive red boxes full of papers which she had to read and sign to give her assent to the government's proposals. She meet the prime minister every week to discuss affairs of state, she knew more about so much and was a great sounding board for the prime ministers that meet her. They were able to discuss anything knowing it would go no further. she didn't let her opinions known outside of these meeting. As a person she was exceptionally good at remembering people no matter who they were. She was a very normal frugal person of that generation; she certainly didn't splash her wealth around in front of people.

Thank you for starting this thread OP. I felt really low today and when I thought about it I realised it was because I felt quite alienated from all the people gushing about the royal family. I am not British - but have lived her for a long time - and I don’t understand why people don’t get angry about the fact that there is this incredibly wealthy family that doesn’t even pay all its taxes.

Fancy some lemon with that bitter?

So much nonsense it's unreal.

'every day parliament was in session she would receive red boxes full of papers which she had to read and sign to give her assent to the government's proposals. She meet the prime minister every week to discuss affairs of state, she knew more about so much and was a great sounding board for the prime ministers that meet her.'

I thought the idea was that she was not supposed to influence politics? If she read and signed assent to government proposals, doesn't that imply she could have refused? If she was discussing affairs of state that implies she had some input. Or is the idea that she had no choice but to sign assent and that she had no choice but to agree with the prime minister about everything? It seems very unclear to me - either the monarch is impartial or not.

So many large, people carrying helicopters going overhead coming back from London like an annoyingly loud reminder of all the money that has been splurged today even just getting all the personnel from A to B who attended or were part of the funeral procession. Double glazing needed! Cannot escape the funeral it was everywhere today, even though I only saw the 'highlignts' on the 6pm news. Every radio station playing crap songs and constant updates. The only channel that wasn't showing it was Cbeebies! All the shops shut, all over social media with people's coffin/hearse selfies 😵‍💫 Thank god for countryside walks and baking. Even Covid didn't shut everything down but the queen dying did.

What's surprising more than anything is that people are surprised that wealth inequality has increased when this was the entire purpose of Brexit. The Royal family - the Queen specifically - failed to fulfil its constitutional duty in this period, and so the fawning over Royalty now is troubling. But OP they are not the source of wealth inequality. Yes, through their actions since 2016 and beforehand they have proved they will do anything - even ignore constitutional duties - to try to maintain that because that's the only way to maintain their position. But frankly, this is all a distraction. They are not relevant.

People have the choice to demand a different political system, better politicians like they have in many other European countries (people with actual skills and knowledge and experience to bring - scientists, economists, leaders of business, doctors, lawyers, etc; but we must be willing to pay them properly for what they'll sacrifice by being in these roles (temporary, intrusive, effect on family: it's baffling to me that people think it's fiiiine to give Royals millions but balk at the idea of paying a politician £300-500k which is orders of magnitude less than Royals receive. People proper qualified to do the roles and share first-hand knowledge and experience being qualified and having worked in the relevant areas, which Royals do not have).

All of the above assumes people are capable of being rational. The last 6 years show me that unfortunately a large proportion are not and therefore I expect little change. At least not for the better.

I am glad I was not born in Afghanistan. I wish I had been born in Finland. And I hate being cold.

Fancy some lemon with that bitter?

So much nonsense it's unreal.

Please explain what part of that post you responded to was nonsense? As far as I can see they were posting factual tax rates which are correct.

Me too. I didnt watch for 1 minute. Let her family console themselves with their mansions and castles diamonds jewels and luxury holidays

OMG12 The Queen did pay tax on the monarch's income from the Duchy of Lancaster as did Charles when he was the Prince of Wales for profits from the Duchy of Cornwall. The money given to the monarchy from the government is from the profits of the Crown Estates which were given to us by George the 3rd. Normally the monarch gets 15% but at present it's 25% of the profits in order to cover the repairs on Buckingham Palace. In fact, most of the money goes on running the Castles and Palaces which would still need to be done whither we have a monarch or not.

Thank you for posting this. I'm not a black woman but I still find it disgusting that the powers that be did this to other nations and think they should be grateful. I didnt know that about the Kenyan boy. That is truly awful. Something I will research x

The cost of "running" then depends in some proportion to what purpose they are used for. They could be sold, or turned into hotels, or used to house homeless people, or turned into tourist attractions. And not pay for all of the servants who run them for whenever the people of 7 homes choose to turn up. Your comment is at best disingenuous and at worst deliberately misleading. Those buildings will need physical upkeep costs regardless, if we do not wish them to go to ruin. But they could be used in such a way as to fund a large proportion ot that cost, and eliminate a large proportion of the current running cost at the same time. Irrespective of whether we keep a Royal Family or not: they do not need this many state funded properties.

But like I said earlier, while it's idiotic that we accept this, in the big scheme of things it is not the real issue and a drop in the UK wide financial ocean. That said, that alone doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue.

Yep same. It's a bit like brexit. A total division. Actually if you look at the demographics for those who appear to adore the royal family it is mostly the over 50s (and not wanting to generalise as I know it's not all!). So when you think about it..this is the baby boomer generation. They've had a great run really so of course they don't really have any clue why people feel aggrieved towards the royal family amongst others! Many of them will not have lived through the second world war but born after. But the rest of us are not having such a great time. Vital services which were taken for granted by the boomers are being run down to or already have become privatised ...trains, post and NHS etc. Politicians lie with impunity and manipulate the media and masses, cronyism and nepotism is rife. Our freedoms are daily being eroded, even freedom of speech. The gap between the poor and super rich has widened into a gaping chasm. Most people are priced out of the housing market these days and free education is no longer in England, these are things the boomers took for granted! We try to stand up to injustices in society and get labelled as snowflakes, remoaners and shouted down. No wonder then we feel disenfranchised and uncomfortable about the over bloated royal family who expect deferential treatment for apparently being born superior whilst displaying hideous wastage of public funds. Some of whom have shown absolutely deplorable behaviour which would have landed any normal person in prison, yet the queen has endorsed this behaviour by bailing out with her funds. Prince Andrew looking at you. In my view NOONE is superior to anyone else and the royal family simply perpetuate the total imbalance and classist system in our society as they have done for hundreds of years.

I guess the thing I think is that in any complex society, and in fact to some degree in the simplest societies even, there are people with more and people with less.

Even the supposed meritocracies aren't - sometimes they can actually be worse because there is this idea that there is no hierarchy, which is total bollocks, or the hierarchy is seen to be based to an unrealistic degree on what the people involved deserve. There is something to be said for the open recognition that where you start has a lot to do with where you end up, and a sense that those at the top have some kind of obligation to all.

Aren't these people just surviving on not very high salaries . . . . VS wealthy people who pay nothing at due to their ability to access huge amounts of tax relief. Someone on 200K with 80K + tax relief from the government from their investments means they are paying only NI and barely any income tax!

I don't think a contractor like a plumber, etc bothers me as much as they are literally trying to survive this money grabbing government. It's the fact that the people who run the country have legal ways to take home nearly ALL their pay and pay only NI meanwhile everyone else pays into the pot - it's the biggest scam.
The RF have laws in place to avoid inheritance tax for example. Why are we forced to pay?

They conveniently left out the additional tax rate of 39.35% for starters, which results in people paying MORE tax than someone on PAYE.

Then, the fact that the vast majority of contractors actually pay PAYE nowadays because bitter people want their cake and eat it. Quite illegally in fact as this has been the biggest government scam of the decade.

Do you know why contractors paid less tax than permanent employees? Or how the dividend tax now cripples entrepreneurs? Or the small business owner? Probably not because people are too busy crying and whining that everyone, including those who risk everything to contribute to the economy, should be paying the same PAYE. Yet conveniently neglecting that they pay corporation tax, employers NI etc. that permanent employees don't. Or shoulder the same risks and responsibilities.

Anyone can quote tax rates. It's the other nonsense that goes with it.

I’m aware plenty of countries don’t have monarchs but we do. We have kept ours. And have for over a thousand odd years. France may not have one, it doesn’t mean we should get riding ours because other countries have.
Some people are royalists, others aren’t, each to their own.

Yep same. It's a bit like brexit. A total division. Actually if you look at the demographics for those who appear to adore the royal family it is mostly the over 50s (and not wanting to generalise as I know it's not all!). So when you think about it..this is the baby boomer generation. They've had a great run really so of course they don't really have any clue why people feel aggrieved towards the royal family amongst others! Many of them will not have lived through the second world war but born after. But the rest of us are not having such a great time. Vital services which were taken for granted by the boomers are being run down to or already have become privatised ...trains, post and NHS etc. Politicians lie with impunity and manipulate the media and masses, cronyism and nepotism is rife. Our freedoms are daily being eroded, even freedom of speech. The gap between the poor and super rich has widened into a gaping chasm. Most people are priced out of the housing market these days and free education is no longer in England, these are things the boomers took for granted! We try to stand up to injustices in society and get labelled as snowflakes, remoaners and shouted down. No wonder then we feel disenfranchised and uncomfortable about the over bloated royal family who expect deferential treatment for apparently being born superior whilst displaying hideous wastage of public funds. Some of whom have shown absolutely deplorable behaviour which would have landed any normal person in prison, yet the queen has endorsed this behaviour by bailing out with her funds. Prince Andrew looking at you. In my view NOONE is superior to anyone else and the royal family simply perpetuate the total imbalance and classist system in our society as they have done for hundreds of years

Exactly, everything here is how I feel. Thank you

I have travelled the world and seen inequality and I can assure you in Britain there is inequality, but it is nothing compared with other parts of the world. Yes in communist countries they all have the same - they all have nothing, while a few at the top have everything. We have nothing like the inequalities in America. I have visited countries where if you’re reasonably middle-class you are lucky to live in a three bedroomed flat. It does annoy me the way people bang on about Britain. They listen to all the negative talk in the media without listening to anything that gives the other side about what is going on in other parts of the world. If you’re naive enough to believe some of the stuff in the New York Times and The Guardian then you might think Britain is rubbish but then why do all these people want to come here? You might find better countries than this but I can assure you there are vastly worse countries to live in. I know because I’ve been to them.

Agree, some of their money should be taken for specific purposes. More social housing. More subsidised child care.

Agree with people saying that having a child shouldn't tip you in to poverty.