No consequences for teenagers' behaviour

[Gallo]

I work in a large secondary school, teaching a compulsory core subject.

I've just taken on a GCSE class who, on the whole, don't care about learning and are in very bad habits. According to the TA in the class, this is partly as a result of being given to a cover supervisor for the last two terms of last year who apparently let them get away with whatever they liked and expected very little work.

In the first week (alongside literally every child causing a problem like refusing to sit in my seating plan, calling out, answering back, challenging my authority, wasting time, arriving late, arriving with no equipment or their book, using a mobile phone without permission, failing to complete homework etc.) and doing my best to teach lessons they wanted to be part of and learned something from, I had to break up a fight between two boys, had to confiscate a device on which a boy was taking photos of me, had to back away from a boy who tried to stand over me and put his arms around me for intimidation, and deal with another who deliberately and repeats things I say, substituting insulting or vulgar terms.

The boys who hit each other were removed by SMT. The only thing I can do is keep the others in detention with me at the end of each lesson, where they have continued to defend themselves, be rude and back each other up, wasting my lunchtime and forcing me to spend nearly three hours in total in their company at a time. My Head of Department is aware, as are the parents, but they don't seem to care.

AIBU to think there are just no consequences for poor behaviour and I can't make a difference to any of this on my own?

You are not being unreasonable, I feel sorry upset for you. At my child's school all them behaviours have consequences like detention with another staff member. Taking a phone away for 48 hours. Isolation. These sanctions are listed in their planners and will be enforced by the head of year. The majority of the school comply even though you always get the odd few that don't. I would hate my child to be in a school like yours.

There's no such thing as discipline anymore I'm afraid, it's too offensive.

This sounds like a school behaviour policy issue. Why, in particular, has the boy who intimidated you and been physical not been excluded? It sounds like others should also be excluded from what you describe. This is beyond detention level behaviour.

To play devils advocate, these students

2019-2020 lock down missed 1.5 terms
2020/2021 lockdown missed a terms school
2021/2022 no teacher for 2 terms

That is what our society has done to them and now we wonder why they are not engaged with their learning,

And yet some kids are engaged with learning who also went through lock down

So what? My teen ds had all of the Covid crap and wouldn’t dream of making a total arse of himself at school. He hates disruptive behaviour in class. Thankfully he’s in a school where it’s not tolerated anyway.
No this is sod all to do with Lockdowns. This is kids from families who don’t give a toss about their kids, or their kids education. They have no values.

The school need to up their game massively.

Not having had a proper teacher for the last two terms is probably more responsible for disengaged behaviour than lockdowns of over a year before that.

However, the OP isn’t describing disengaged behaviour, but disruptive behaviour.

2019-2020 lock down missed 1.5 terms
2020/2021 lockdown missed a terms school
2021/2022 no teacher for 2 terms

…….and? My Dd and all her friends came out with a great set of GCSE this summer. Why are you blaming lockdown now?

Oh, ffs! Lockdown happened to ALL kids. It's not an excuse for vile behaviour.
"Society" is not to blame here 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
Your post must be the stupidest I've seen in a long time, and it's got some stiff competition.

My year 10 son had all this happen to him. He doesn't act this way, neither do any of his friends. They are more engaged with learning now. Stop making excuses.

I actually don't think "consequences " is the answer. What people love to call "discipline" is in my view usually the opposite of discipline which is really about learning habits and behaviour that allow an individual to achieve and grow.
We're not going to do anything that children would genuinely fear ( which is a good thing) so we're talking about them being deterred by what inconveniences them. What is driving this behaviour is a stronger force than something inconvenient like a detention which might or might not happen at some point in the future. For everyone's sake, any student who intimidated you needs to be seen to be removed from your class, if not the school, at least for a time.

It is very hard to find solutions when you're in an environment where it sounds as if you're unsupported and don't have systems in place that enable you to remove disruptive students.
My advice would be to try to form positive relationships with individuals. Chat to them on their way in. Make them feel as if you like and value them. Teach as well as you possibly can so they see what you can do for them. I'd start with something they can all do- unthreatening-but that moves them on in a way they can see easily.
I'm a teacher myself and absolutely understand that the position you are in is very hard indeed.

My advice would be to contact your union about how your school is allowing you to be threatened, abused and intimidated by pupils.

This makes me so glad I'm not a teacher.

I don't think you can blame them for disengaging from learning when they didn't have a teacher for 2 terms! That's fucking shocking.

But the behaviour is appalling. I'd be trying a "catch more flies with honey" approach if I were you.

This is BS. Yes there's been an impact on many students. This is not a covid impact. This is a poor behaviour policy.

OP you need a new school with a solid behaviour policy with clear consequences. At my school the only teacher detentions are for missed hw or low level disruption dealt with in the class. Everything else is referred up and we have HOD, HOH, and SLT detentions, if they fail to attend one it escalates and leads to intervention. Particularly difficult children have a behaviour support plan where the parents agree to immediate after school detentions length determined by their behaviour points on the day.

We also have a 3 strike system in classrooms which all teachers adhere to closely. Verbal warning, written warning on board (gets a behaviour point and held back at break, lunch, 10 mins end of day) then we call Duty teacher and can either allow them to cool off and return or ask them to be taken away. Obviously very poor behaviour we can escalate immediately.

The kids know this and the majority behave and respond well to sanctions leaving teachers, middle and senior management with a manageable behaviour workload.

It's a great system but only works if everyone is consistent. You rarely hear teachers shout in my school as generally we don't need to. It's not a very easy school, relatively deprived area, military children, traveller community.

By contrast my last school in a privileged area with higher social mobility, brighter students but no clear behaviour policy teachers are often left to deal with issues which are constantly repeating with no back up from SLT and definitely more shouty.

My sympathy, OP. This is what led me to walk out of a job in a secondary school.

I had been shouted at, sworn at, spat on, all sorts but the final straw was when I reported a kid for telling me to go fuck myself and was asked what I'd said to him to make him do it.

I agree it’s been a crap few years for everyone but it’s not an excuse. I’m sorry but since when has it EVER been acceptable to intimidate people??? I repeatedly see threads regarding mens poor behaviour toward women, violence being one big issue. This is where the behaviour has to be corrected, these young boys need to be told NO before they get to the stage where they become violent and abusive, alongside their poor attitude towards women. Stop excusing them, covid has done damage but that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for them to scare people. It’s disgusting. Parents need to take a long hard look at their kids and work with the school. It’s utterly shameful. If I found out my kids behaved like this I would be gutted.

Well not all humans are the same or respond the same.

It's not really a surprise to people that those already struggling with education and disenfranchised with education became more so the past few years?

It's absolutely NOT ok they behave this way. And the school absolutely should have decent consequences and actions as a result.

I find working with pupils like this it's always best to start by getting them onside. Let them see you aren't the enemy!

Have you done any ice breaker activities with them? What are their interests? What do they do out of school? What do they want to do with their future.

I once got a group onside when the class clown decided to tell me their future goal was to be a drug dealer. They weren't expecting me to suggest that they engaged in my maths lesson then because they'd need the weighing skills, managing money skills, adding and subtraction and direction for delivery.

What they expected was to shock and enrage me. They wanted a reaction.

And you'll be pleased to know this kid went on to be a decent member of society and was never ever involved in drugs in any way from my knowledge! He was actually perfectly lovely once you broke down the defence mechanisms and the whole class were on the whole.

I also turned a blind eye to all the uniform infractions as it really didn't matter to me - I wanted them to engage in teaching not how tight their tie was!

It's not OK that they behave this way but it's also not OK that they were left with a cover supervisor that neglected their education for 2 terms. The school has given them a really clear message that "they are not worth it" and this is the result.

I do wish people would stop using adversity as an excuse for poor behaviour. It simply isn't.

With all the people saying, well look, they have had a lot of cover and lockdown, too - we have all got to learn that we ourselves make our beds and lie in them, even in difficult times. There were hundreds of children in my school last year who had long-term cover in at least two core subjects. 75% of them still behaved well in the clasroom even after months of this, and 95% were back to impeccable behaviour when this year started with new staff.

OP, you need to insist on support from the school, starting with your line manager or your HOD - ensure that any line management meeting has this minuted, so you have backup proof should you need it. For a start, refuse to carry out detentions by yourself - team up with a collague and do them together, or ask a more esnior member to be in the room with you.

Hang up on any parents who abuse you and escalate this to your HOD or SLT - write a short report of what was said, forward it to them in writing and copy the behaviour lead at the school in. Your HOD is paid more for a reason, and this also involves supporting their staff.

Finally, there may well be a good reason the school can't recruit. Our school couldn't last year - there are simply fewer and fewer teachers who put up with the crap the job throws at you and severe shortages in some subjects - computer science, natural sciences, geography, maths - are continually getting worse.

There are more teachers like you needed in schools.

Yes the behaviours are not acceptable but I’d bet my life that within that group of pupils there will be some undiagnosed SEN, there will be kids that are just not academic and are extremely embarrassed by that and some kids who just have no rules at home so have zero respect for anyone.

But that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to physically intimidate and verbally abuse their teacher with no consequence.

Are you sure? This particular school does sound a little out of hand but have you read the news lately? Schools that give detentions for resting your hand on your chin or not smiling enough?

What schools? Can you link to one that gives detention for the reasons you've stated?

My DS is in YR11

There would be consequences by the school for this sort of behaviour, such a missing breaks, detentions and even isolation.

Two important factors stick out; your school is very weak with rules/consequences and the parent’s don’t care/don’t support the school.

On the odd occasion my DS has misbehaved (nothing near the level you’re talking about), I have always supported the school with the consequences they deem appropriate.