No consequences for teenagers' behaviour

[Gallo]

I work in a large secondary school, teaching a compulsory core subject.

I've just taken on a GCSE class who, on the whole, don't care about learning and are in very bad habits. According to the TA in the class, this is partly as a result of being given to a cover supervisor for the last two terms of last year who apparently let them get away with whatever they liked and expected very little work.

In the first week (alongside literally every child causing a problem like refusing to sit in my seating plan, calling out, answering back, challenging my authority, wasting time, arriving late, arriving with no equipment or their book, using a mobile phone without permission, failing to complete homework etc.) and doing my best to teach lessons they wanted to be part of and learned something from, I had to break up a fight between two boys, had to confiscate a device on which a boy was taking photos of me, had to back away from a boy who tried to stand over me and put his arms around me for intimidation, and deal with another who deliberately and repeats things I say, substituting insulting or vulgar terms.

The boys who hit each other were removed by SMT. The only thing I can do is keep the others in detention with me at the end of each lesson, where they have continued to defend themselves, be rude and back each other up, wasting my lunchtime and forcing me to spend nearly three hours in total in their company at a time. My Head of Department is aware, as are the parents, but they don't seem to care.

AIBU to think there are just no consequences for poor behaviour and I can't make a difference to any of this on my own?

This one for example
www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/blaise-high-school-become-like-7593028

You are aware some children lived through a war, rationing, bombings- my DM and her entire generation did- and that’s not whataboutery - don’t come at me with that BS.

Or how about?

One said: “We’re encouraged to scrutinise their [pupils’] facial expressions. If they’re not smiling we’re encouraged to give them demerits or detentions. www.itv.com/news/london/2021-04-30/exclusive-excessive-discipline-claims-at-hackney-new-school-and-pupils-in-detention-referred-to-as-detainees

What schools? Can you link to one that gives detention for the reasons you've stated?

The Michaels school does. There's a documentary on ITV.

It's more like a prison or army boot camp than a nurturing place of education.

They seem to think barking at an anxious child to speak up is the solution for making them feel confident to speak up 🤦🏼‍♀️

The parents are to blame here. They have raised feral yobs but will be the first to complain when they do poorly in their exams, you will not win this one, career change time

No absolutely not but my point was, with the right support and some understanding, you might find it’s a very small minority that behave that way. The rest maybe a lot more engaged.

Document all of it and who you speak to about it. Start sending emails to your hod, the hoy and your department's slt link documenting it and being very clear that you have felt physically unsafe, have had students try to touch you without consequences, have been verbally abused etc and ask them what they are going to do about the behaviour.

If they try to just chat to you in the corridor rather than reply document that too ie. email all of the above again saying, following my conversation with x today in response to the behaviour of class y can I just confirm that your response is... (quote what they said) or if any action is planned to take place?

Ideally you will never need this for future evidence but it will make clear to them that you are documenting it and do have evidence of their inaction and they will read the emails knowing exactly how they would read to eg. the board of governors, a union rep, an employment tribunal, ofsted etc.

Sadly unless you can afford to just walk out (and who can really) you're going to have to get assertive and clever about forcing them to do their jobs and support you.

Really sorry you're having to deal with this.

I agree with a PP. You need a new school. I think I may have taught at this one. You will never sort this while the SMT don’t support you and the culture is to let such behaviour slide.

@FawnFrenchieMum

What you are saying is not need to teachers. However it doesn't excuse bad behaviour.

It is a war of attrition in which you have to be consistent. Implement the consequence, follow it up, if behaviour repeated, repeat consequences. It is draining, boring, time consuming, but eventually the offender's will realise you will not let it go. That's their modus operandi, misbehave and expect teachers to do nothing. You need to get a name as a teacher who will not let it go. Document everything. Record in their planners. Talk to their tutors, HOD, HOY, parents. Be relentless, it truly is the only way. You let it go in one class that's your credibility shot.

But your school must have consequences for bad behaviour. You've escalated the fighting boys to SMT. What other procedures are in place? Are all other teachers struggling with this class or are they just disruptive in your class?

In our school, the fighting boys, the child on their phone, the child intimidating you, the child using vulgar terms - all would have been escalated to Head of Year who would have contacted their parents and given punishments from detentions to suspensions. Lack of equipment and being late to class would have been verbal or written reprimands.

If your Head of Department is ineffective, then try the Head of Year.
There are lots of disengaged parents but the school has to force them to engage. You deserve a safe work environment but also the other DCs in that class deserve an environment where they can learn.

Bullshit. People like you are part of the problem.

This! I'm not a teacher myself, but this is the only way I know how to manage teenage boys. The problem with escalation of "consequences" is that they like the drama and are curious how far it can go. But, deep down, they want to do well and be valued, like everyone. Sometimes, they're just trying to be funny and misjudge it. They are exhausting.
I feel like, as an adult, I have to relentlessly model good behaviour, especially positive ways of connecting with people. And it's only that good connection that seems to work with them, because they will accept rules from someone who likes them and is consistent. I hope they pay you a lot, OP! It sounds really hard.

I mean - a lot of kids really were affected badly by lockdown. During it, and then others afterwards when returning to school. Anxiety and behavioural problems through the roof. That's the case everywhere. I thought everyone agreed with that!

That makes my blood run cold. My DS has ADHD and would last about 30 seconds in a school like that but my DD who is in Y 4 and so we're thinking about secondary would be terrified by that sort of regime. I'm afraid we'll choose a school for her and then a year later it would turn into this.

do you think missing 4.5 terms of teaching sends them the message that their education is important?

@notagoodidea

"The parents are to blame here. They have raised feral yobs but will be the first to complain when they do poorly in their exams, you will not win this one, career change time"

This ^

I would go so far as to say that this is where all the shite dads have come from, in another thread. They have no respect for anyone, especially women.

That is no excuse for bad manners, bad behaviour and bad language!

@Zuyi

A lot of kids have been badly affected by the pandemic. They're not all running wild though and yes I know people react differently to trauma and this will cause some kids to act up.

It's very clear from ops post that her school is not supporting her and does not have a clear behaviour management strategy. It's therefore irrelevant why they're doing it in that scenario, just how it's being handled.

Whatever the reason for the behaviour we can support that but we can't allow it without consequence.

Remember teachers are not therapists, all the can do is mentor or support and that includes consequences for bad behaviour.

In what world do we not give consequences for bad behaviour? Not one I want to teach in or even live in!

(From a secondary school teacher/mother of a year 11 with severe anxiety triggered by the pandemic)

It's interesting to read all of the views on this thread. There is an element of truth in all of it but fundamentally the issue is the whole school structures and systems. As a class teacher there is only so much you can achieve alone. These kids are acting this way because they have had no boundaries in school and it doesn't matter how hard you try. I teaachbin a challenging school but we have systems to deal with negative behaviours, huge amounts of intervention to support kids with SEN, safeguarding, disadvantaged students etc. Even with that support in place my y11 class that have just left were hard to teach for the last 2 years.

When did your school last have ofsted?

I’m v sorry for your situation op. Perhaps a change of school may help? Sometimes there is a limit to what you are able to do - due to the system you are working in

Sounds like management is crap. Fellow teacher here. Sadly, the best solution for you personally is to find a job elsewhere.

You need to build a relationship with them.

Can you think outside of the box with what to do?

I am not a teacher but I was a youth worker before becoming a social worker and I ran the roughest youthclub on the roughest estate. I did simple consistent things whilst also having a laugh (youth work not teaching). Building relationships with them will be your best line of defence but not in a David Brent I'm your mate way.

Go in Tuesday with raffle tickets. Give them all 3. Have 3 chocolate bars as a prize. Take away tickets for poor behaviour and act a bit gleeful if you take a ticket away (because if no one has any tickets left you get all 3 bars).

Do that, or something similar for consistency every lesson. The YP I worked with would have taken the piss completely about the chocolate bars but I'd have acted so happy to be eating them. They would have cracked. Or do you not have freedom to do things out of the box in your school?

In the UK bad behaviour gets rewarded and excused as the perpetrators are considered victims for some reason.

Oh man you poor thing. This is why I could never be a teacher, especially secondary school. I take my hat off to you.
This is also why I now homeschool my kids.
I have no solution for you but I do have empathy for a very tricky situation.