You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

Working class?!? Based on the crassness of this post, more like "no class"!

But the class system is more sophisticated than that. Being born into one particular 'class' doesn't mean you're stuck in it forever despite all the changes that might happen throughout your life.

"Membership in a social class can for example be dependent on education, wealth, occupation, income, and belonging to a particular subculture or social network."

So by that definition, if someone has gone to university and achieved a medicine degree, now works as a doctor/surgeon, earns a good salary and predominantly mixes with other "middle class" people who fit a similar criteria then that makes them middle class, regardless of upbringing.

Yes if you are looking at class as an objectively defined metric like the whole A B C social class rating etc. However in reality it is much more subtle than that and that is why you can’t change class by dint of having more money or simply gaining some qualifications despite what govt mobility tsars would like you to think

But the class system is more sophisticated than that. Being born into one particular 'class' doesn't mean you're stuck in it forever despite all the changes that might happen throughout your life.

Class is cultural for all the other shit markers, yes you can change culture but the foundation is built.

I love being wc from a long line of blue collar workers, although 2 siblings have a professional job, Dbro has a building company, the next generation are attending university we as a family are proud of our culture wc life.

Unfortunately the younger ones may feel shame in their professional career turning their back on their upbringing once they realise that they'll be judged.

MC people may have more but it doesn't make them better people, there is amazing people everywhere.

Obviously but what I said was you cannot change the fact you were born British - so you can 'migrate' to middle class but you can never change the fact your were born working class, or vice versa.

despite what govt mobility tsars would like you to think ha! Yes exactly - oh we have let this person buy their council house, now they are middle class.

“Your betters”…… wow. Do
people really think this way? Tell me you are trying to be clever and don’t actually believe this?

Tell me you are not so naïve as to believe there aren’t people who think like that

I am genuinely interested in the answer to this one, as I know someone just like this - an aristocrat (or at least, someone whose name and family are listed in the peerage) who is on universal credit. Not a joke.

I’m a dr.

I guarantee you, GUARANTEE you, that throughout his decades of training he will not have been allowed to forget his class for a moment.

How stupid of you to ‘goggle’ at him.

Yes I agree he is working class as an individual and by background. His children are middle class.

Interesting thread.

The British class system is actually a caste system.

He will have been reminded at every step of the way to the top of his profession that there are not many sons of bin men doing what he does for a living.

X post with @MissTrip82

I’ve always wondered about crossing the class system and whether it was possible. Class isn’t wealth. I live in quite a wealthy area but it’s populated by tradesmen (traditionally considered a working class profession) earning considerably more than the average wage, in lovely Big houses with multiple cars.

My parents were both born to families headed up by tradesmen. They both left school at 15 with no qualifications but both ended up in uni as adults and in very middle class professions at the end of their careers. Did they jump up to middle class based on educational attainment and meterial possessions or remain middle class?

I was born into a very working class family but as mentioned they became highly educated throughout my childhood. I was the first generation to go straight to university after school. My parents, by the time I went to uni would have “appeared” middle class but I got sick and had to spend a long time on disability benefits (so underclass as a Tory once called me). Did I step up a class because I filled out on my uni forms they had postgrad qualifications then drop 2, or is the whole class system unfit for purpose and designed to keep people who don’t fit society’s ideals in their place, usually down?

*remain working class - sorry

Class is a funny one. I consider myself working class. My Dad worked in a factory, Mum worked in an office...they owned their own home but we were not well off. I have a strong regional accent and my Grandparents were a bus driver, shop assistant, seamstress and foundry worker

DH considers himself middle class despite the fact he was actually poorer than me growing up. His Mum worked in a pub and his Dad moved between jobs a lot but they also owned their own home. His grandparents were a nurse, some kind of regional manager, a carer and a welder. His accent is more neutral than mine but stronger than he thinks it is

We both grew up in the same place and both went to uni although neither of us work professional jobs. I work in admin and DH has a semi-skilled trade. Our son has more than we ever had growing up but I still think of us as a working class family, he disagrees 🤷‍♀️

SIL tells me she's MC, because she's on benefits and not working.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie @SnackSizeRaisin

It's the word "undoubtedly" I'm objecting to.

"Probably" and "on average" in the later posts - yes. Children from "working class" backgrounds (and particularly White British ones) are statistically far more likely to face these barriers, and others. But there are working class children with supportive parents, good schools, expectation to go to uni etc. etc. (I was one of them). We know absolutely nothing about the surgeon's upbringing, yet make assumptions that some things are "undoubtedly" true.

@carefullycourageous I'm not arguing that "class" doesn't create barriers - they are often huge - I'm arguing that people making an "undoubted" assumption about a child's upbringing based on their family income is perhaps one of the biggest barriers.

I would class myself as coming from a lower middle background and my DH from a working class background.
My DF was senior management in IT (now retired) and my DM was a house wife. 4 bed house in nice area of town. 2x holidays a year. I got a university place but chose not to go.
My DH’s DF was a plumber, his DM worked all sorts to bring money in. He has memories of her walking round the shops with a calculator working it out to the penny. He went on no holidays as a child. Didn’t attempt to go to uni.
If you believe in social mobility then we are now firmly middle. I work in finance. He works in banking. Our combined income is nearly £175k a year. Big 4 bed detached house. We have a Labrador and I have a horse. Several holidays a year. Own a Land Rover etc.
Has it been discussed how people hold their knife and fork yet??

Oh so it's just a semantics issue? We see this a lot. Because the odd person from a disadvantaged group can get there, we can't talk about the wider issue.

This is a deliberate tactic used to resist/slow efforts to level playing fields.

My feeling is you know what is meant, you it is harder for kids from wc backgrounds to reach the pinnacle of many professions and you probably know why too.

The barrier is structural inequality, not people talking about structural inequality.

Yes I would imagine so.

As an example of how I feel middle class. The first time I went over to my ex-DH's working class background family for a buffet I took some food items for the buffet - some brie, olives, houmous and crudités - his family looked at me like I was mad and I was the only person who ate those items! The family member is, however much more well off than me!

The British class system is actually a caste system.

I'll add that it was and still is psychological manipulation to keep people in their place.

My DC go to a private school. Anyone who is working class and sends their DC there is nouveau riche and shouldn't be there. I have actually heard people say this. I used to laugh at the snobbery because there were a few times my DC brought the wrong book bag home and many of their DC were actually way behind the others. Once my eldest got an academic award and scholarship and lots of them complained.

This is so revealing. Your focus on the academic achievement is exactly what marks you out as not one of them.

Good.

Having been around them, I am quite disgusted with their behaviour and massive sense of entitlement, and much prefer my own sort.