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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is grit and resilience really the answer?

152 replies

Grittymadness · 16/09/2022 00:02

The DC's school has been doing lots and lots of work on the importance of having emotional grit and resilience. Growth mindset and determination to achieve.

There seems such a focus on this in schools and I have a problem with it I'm struggling to articulate. It's like it's all down to the individual - if your not achieving or coping you just need to toughen up, work harder etc. (This is hard to process when say your child has learning difficulties, poor mental health etc).

Does anyone else agree, or am I just being overly sensitive and need a bit of resilience myself 😂

OP posts:
Goldbar · 16/09/2022 06:23

SierraSapphire · 16/09/2022 05:35

Psychologist Alex Haslam says something like repeated research shows that resilience is something that happens in groups rather than in individuals. Sure we can have some control over this ourselves, but if we are growing up in a place where we are experiencing poverty, abuse, racism or any of those other similar things that take away our mental energy we have less bandwidth to focus on school or work or whatever else it is. This isn't a failure within ourselves, it's a failure of society and the environment in which we are living, and I think any type of positive psychology has the potential to make people feel worse because they are not able to achieve something that they are told is within their power.

Childhood so-called resilience can have a detrimental effect further down the line, which has absolutely been my experience, you individualise everything and carry on "coping" with more and more stress, and appear to be "resilient" and then all of a sudden 30, 40 or 50 years later you find your body is no longer able to cope and you have chronic or acute illness. There are well known links between adverse child experiences and later ill-health.

This is an interesting response and I have also seen research on this. As @SierraSapphire says, what the research essentially shows is that people who go through traumatic experiences have less cognitive and emotional bandwidth to deal with life's challenges. Applying it to children, children facing poverty, abuse, bullying, trauma, anxiety, racism or sexism are essentially running to stand still in many cases. They are often in fight or flight mode, which puts huge stress on their bodies and mental state and can have significant long-term consequences. It's no surprise therefore that many of the children who seem the most 'resilient' and able to deal with new challenges and experiences have stable, supportive homes where their parents or carers are a safe place for them. For children who don't have these things, they need that safe space before they have the resources to make progress in other areas. And that's why many of these children behave badly or have emotional outbursts at school... school not home is often their safe place where they have enough trust in the adults around them to feel like they don't have to hold it together all the time (which can be an enormous strain on them).

I think there is a personality element to resilience too (some people respond better to challenges than others) and you can teach people how to 'scaffold' themselves to some degree, but I also think a large part of it is structural and therefore much more difficult to address.

carefullycourageous · 16/09/2022 06:25

I think the current "mental health crisis" is in some walks of life the result of the medicalisation of normal emotional response. I agree with this, the UK is extremely unequal, and the more unequal your society is the more MH problems there are in the group's doing less well. It is a result of our societal structure.

We have two million children living in poverty. Maybe instead of telling them to cheer up, we could give them some food?

AloysiusBear · 16/09/2022 06:28

Carefullycourageous

Agreed. We shouldnt have a situation where households with two parents in full time work are absolutely skint in great swathes of the country.

The answer isn't that everyone needs to try and get more highly skilled work either - we need childcare workers, carers, retail and hospitality services and if they were all staffed by highly skilled people paid 40k their services wouldn't be affordable.

carefullycourageous · 16/09/2022 06:29

At work I can see the difference in people who have an inner 'resilience' versus those who don't. Isn't it possible that this just means 'some people have had easier lives so they are less stressed when they arrive at work' though?

It gets progressively more difficult to be 'resilient' the more shit life throws at you.

carefullycourageous · 16/09/2022 06:34

I agree @AloysiusBear - I do not know what the answer is but if two adults working full time doesn't deliver an acceptable life, the system is failing.

There has to be enough hope of success to feel positive. Believing you can succeed against the odds is, frankly, a bit mental.

Kids are not thick. They are looking at climate change, renting forever, insecure job markets, education debt. We need to fix that, just a bit, not tell them to cheer up about it.

Toddlerteaplease · 16/09/2022 06:40

Look at many Mumsnet posts, to see why resilience is important. So many people have none.

Notlosinganyweight · 16/09/2022 06:44

My sons school has this too. I think he needs to learn a bit of grit and resilience, so I'm glad.

I do think the whole 'self care/improvement' movement is actually quite toxic though. My workplace are very much into helping people with their wellbeing, by signposting and leaflet waving without changing working conditions that make people stressed. They do get some of it right and I'm glad we have an openish culture about it, but to me it sends a message that you are weak and have caused your own stress, rather than your environment being shit and making you stressed. The self care movement is about saying you are the problem rather than people discussing why so many people are stressed in the first place and whether societal conditions need to change. I hope this isnt what they are teaching the kids.

Anothernamechangeplease · 16/09/2022 06:59

I don't think it's about telling people to just cheer up and suck things up. Or if it is, then they're doing it all wrong.

I think it's about helping children to develop strategies to deal with any setbacks in positive ways. Teaching them that mistakes and failures are a normal part of life. Encouraging them not to limit themselves by making false judgments about their own abilities. Supporting the development of problem solving skills so that they feel empowered to proactively tackle the challenges that they encounter.

It isn't about teaching children that they're weak if they're struggling, or that it's their own fault if they have problems. It's more about giving them the resources that make them feel like they don't just have to passively accept those problems.

pompomdaisy · 16/09/2022 07:04

Yes I have a slight problem with this particular buzzword. It's popular in the NHS too. It shifts responsibility from the institution to the individual.

In my daughters case she has panic disorder and no amount of grit was going to overcome her particular medical needs. However teachers chucked in the word resilience every now and again like it was just about developing the right attitude. It wasn't. She's incredibly plucky and brave. She was ill.

MysteriesOfTheOrganism · 16/09/2022 07:09

@Grittymadness "if you're not coping... it's your fault"

No, it's not your fault - because some people get dealt a poor hand in life and things can become grim. But it is your responsibility to deal with it, because you are responsible for managing yourself and your life.

bodie1890 · 16/09/2022 07:13

Grittymadness · 16/09/2022 00:48

Thanks for the replies they are really useful. I guess it feels like if your not coping (say you have poor mental health) it's your fault. You need to build up your resilience and keep trying and overcome it. If yo can't do that it's because you are weak and stopped trying.
Oh dear I'm not explaining myself well 😆

You need a balance of both.

It's great that they are teaching this, as long as they are offering mental health support/ awareness as well.

Reaching out for help with mental health can actually be part of building resilience, too.

Fullupdowntown1a1 · 16/09/2022 07:13

@Grittymadness yes I think you’ve hit on something here. This can happen quite a lot with psychological concepts, they get highlighted by some study or other as being “something interesting, worth considering” the concept gets picked up in pop science writing, or the author of the original research turn it into a book and flesh out the theory. It takes off.

Then it gets adopted by lay people and institutions, this is usually the point where the “specialist” meaning of the term or concept becomes a more lay understanding and loses it’s academic definition. Then its significance in achievement or whatever (maybe mental health, maybe physical health, maybe further educational attainment) seems outsized due to sloppy reporting in the media, convenience for institutions, and/or novelty.

Invariably, the idea gets over applied and usually in a fairly inexpert way, so often it will enter curricula or staff training programmes etc not via experts in the field where it comes from but by a range of generalists who come across the idea and improvise around it and incorporate elements of it into what they do. Or it can be on a more official level via expert consultation but gets watered down over time because there’s not enough funding to implement training properly.

A few years later, it fails to deliver on what seemed like it’s promise in the way people expected. If may even have become low-key weaponised by institutions to to paper over fundamental cracks in core delivery of its function or service, or to shame staff into using low intensity interventions (5 minute relaxation techniques) for complex problems (E.g burnout, exhaustion, depression, sleep deprivation).

So with grift and resilience, rather than these being seen as sets of skills, learned over time with effort, which can help a student make the most of a variety of traits, advantages, and cog ability they have already- they sometimes become seen as more stable traits that students are implored to have, or admonished for not having, despite the requisite training not really being in place.

Some other examples of this were/are: the self-esteem movement of the 80s and 90s -praise and positive reinforcement can be good, but offered indiscriminately it can remove intrinsic motivation, and increase emotional fragility in the face of criticism; Mindfulness- evidence is good for mindfulness but it’s a fairly challenging and subtle skill to acquire and in the original studies training in mindfulness skills were delivered by lifelong Zen practitioners who were often also psychologists- not so much the casewhen it got out into the wild; Positive visualisation- turns out is useful but you need to visual process that can achieve a goal rather than the achievement of the goal itself as this is counter productive; random nudge techniques also had their day in the sun, like publicly committing to a goal to help ensure you complete it, turns out this can backfire because getting the “good feeling” of achievement up front by telling people can undermine the reward of actually doing it.

Its not just psychology though, other fix all fads include things like high intensity interval training for improving health/mental health, using BMI as a proxy measure for assessment of physical health (this one is very controversial); encouraging the use of complimentary medicine in place of effective pain management (e.g. aromatherapy in childbirth instead of evidence based pain relief); training non clinicians to screen for signs of specific psychiatric disorders or cognitive disability (not a bad idea but can blur boundaries in unhelpful ways);

The list goes on and on. It’s usually not that these things are without value, it’s just that they often get denatured and distorted in their application and can become an unhelpful dogma that undermines more holistic and well established approaches which can often be applied more effectively.

DickDarstedly · 16/09/2022 07:15

Yes of course you are right OP and plenty of discourse analysts have studied it. It is quite clearly a sociocultural turn relating to the idea of self reliance, that is we can’t expect society or even our community to look after us or take responsibility for us anymore so we are going to have to learn to put up and shut up.

Obviously resilience is not a bad thing, that is clear and especially if it is linked to the idea of ‘self care’ who could argue with that? But the fact that it has arisen as a dominant discourse during this period where every day there are fewer and fewer ways in which we can rely on other services, other people or organisations to support us is not coincidental. Employers have been shaking off responsibilities and trying to convince people of the great ‘freedom’ people have if they work in the gig economy, government funded services eg. Social services, education and health have been deliberately run down. We have had to rely on our own resources for more and more. Instead of being angry about this or noticing what is happening and really interrogating it we are encouraged to believe it is up to each individual to toughen up and optimise themselves.

Put up and shut up, toughen up and be quiet. These things don’t sound very nice. But, Practice mindfulness, be kind and resilient all sound lovely and caring, with the added benefit that they can be monetised by selling people courses, books, slogan mugs, posters, teas, podcasts, atmospheric music, yoga trousers, recipe books, candles…..

carefullycourageous · 16/09/2022 07:15

Anothernamechangeplease · 16/09/2022 06:59

I don't think it's about telling people to just cheer up and suck things up. Or if it is, then they're doing it all wrong.

I think it's about helping children to develop strategies to deal with any setbacks in positive ways. Teaching them that mistakes and failures are a normal part of life. Encouraging them not to limit themselves by making false judgments about their own abilities. Supporting the development of problem solving skills so that they feel empowered to proactively tackle the challenges that they encounter.

It isn't about teaching children that they're weak if they're struggling, or that it's their own fault if they have problems. It's more about giving them the resources that make them feel like they don't just have to passively accept those problems.

Yes, I think lots of schools and workplaces are definitely doing it wrong!

I have a lot of resilience I think, I have been pretty effective at keeping going and changing direction. But my workplace uses resilience to mean 'do not talk about problems, just STFU'.

SierraSapphire · 16/09/2022 07:17

There's an academic article here about the dark side of resilience link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42844-021-00031-z

EarlyMorningBeachRun · 16/09/2022 07:17

If some schools had their way I’m sure they’d delete any children that are on the more caring, sensitive, kind side or at least beat it out of them somehow. These children are made to feel like they must change to cope with the bullies and bad behaviour from other kids that they as a school fail to deal with. That’s the issue I have with it because that seems to be what ‘resilient means’ to some schools, all schools that I’ve been involved with.

MakeMineALarge1 · 16/09/2022 07:18

I think we do children, teenagers, young adults a massive disservice, we medicalise and label every day emotions. Children aren't allowed to fail, not allowed to experience normal emotions and yes a lot are pandered to.
I am not talking about abuse or trauma, but normal every day emotions. Stress is part of life, exam stress etc, nerves about an upcoming event, all normal, but no, its because they have anxiety and so measures need to be put in to manage it.

You only have to spend day on here to realise how much adults have been bloody pandered to, to the extent they can't open their door, they catastrophise every event. Not able to make a decision without extensive advice, falling out over the most trivial of things. Then you look at how much people are wrapping their kids up and not allowing them to fail, not allowing them a childhood.

I listen to people at work go on and on an on about things and seriously want to say grow the fuck up, get a grip and get on with this, and do think if some parents had said to their kids along the way, yes we know its not fair, but crack on, we might be in a better place now.

maddening · 16/09/2022 07:19

Resilience is so important, the more people that can learn and drive their own resilience the more resources are available for those that can't through no fault of their own, whereas if less people learn the same resources are split over more people.

Same.as learning self defence, should not have to, should be safe, it is only the fault of the perpetrator, but if I am alone and attacked my indignance at the state of the world and men's violence won't help me in that instant, and it would not be my fault as a victim whatever the outcome, but if I can make myself an opportunity to escape or fight back and get away alive then all the better for me.

maddening · 16/09/2022 07:21

EarlyMorningBeachRun · 16/09/2022 07:17

If some schools had their way I’m sure they’d delete any children that are on the more caring, sensitive, kind side or at least beat it out of them somehow. These children are made to feel like they must change to cope with the bullies and bad behaviour from other kids that they as a school fail to deal with. That’s the issue I have with it because that seems to be what ‘resilient means’ to some schools, all schools that I’ve been involved with.

I am kind, sensitive and emotional but also resilient, it is not one ot the other. Being resilient does not mean eradicating sensitive people.

Madamecastafiore · 16/09/2022 07:21

I don't think as a previous poster has mentioned it's about poverty and needing to feed kids.

We aren't affected by any money worries but one of my DC has mental health issues and I feel it's because they have never had to develop and resilience. Myself and her father have always made life incredibly easy for them. They've never had to deal with any problems and when they eventually do they just don't know how to cope.

I wish we'd parented differently now and allowed them to have to face issues that have come up rather than managing them for them.

They have no coping strategies, other than not being able to and saying it's their mental health. Not big things and things that most people would just work through.

I'm not sure grit (they just aren't built that way) has anything to do with it but most certainly teaching resilience is a positive thing. Stuff will happen but we need to teach kids to be resilient and have coping strategies rather than just crumbling.

longleggitybeastie · 16/09/2022 07:22

This is a fascinating and really insightful thread!

EarlyMorningBeachRun · 16/09/2022 07:23

maddening · 16/09/2022 07:21

I am kind, sensitive and emotional but also resilient, it is not one ot the other. Being resilient does not mean eradicating sensitive people.

I know that. Schools appear to not realise that.

Freedomfighters · 16/09/2022 07:25

Children do need to build resilience and develop the skills to manage conflict and problem solve.

StudentMumTo3 · 16/09/2022 07:25

I love it!
Fear of failure holds many back.
Self-fulfilling prophecies of "can't do it" happen too much.
But that's doesn't have to be individualising 'blame' for failure or not succeeded.

It depends how growth mindset, etc is taught and dealt with as concepts. At my kids school, the FIRST part is that well-being is vital as a child will not learn well if the environment isn't right for them and they don't have appropriate support. It recognises that schools should be encouraging, supporting, adapting, the individual for the individual's needs not just saying "try harder or its all your own fault" - I.e. it includes making the school/school system responsible

That's how it's supposed to be. Some schools will get it wrong through, I guess. That's a reflection on the school not the concepts.

carefullycourageous · 16/09/2022 07:25

@Madamecastafiore

I am sorry to hear about your DC and their issues.

For your child it could be X and for another child it could be Y that causes their problems.

Being in poverty and hungry all the time is incredibly stressful. Two million children live in poverty and many are genuinely hungry every single day. I don't think it is right to minimise the stress of poverty because your child has a different situation.

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