To think detention for lateness is wrong

[BelleMarionette]

My child's secondary school gives a detention for even one lateness in the morning.

My child left an hour early, for what should have been a 30 minute journey door to door by bus.

Unfortunately, 2 buses drove past them without stopping. They got very upset and anxious about being late, so I had to come and drive them (not ideal environmentally, and will not always be possible either, due to work).

My child has autism, so gets extremely anxious about the threat of detention, as rules are very important to them.

Aibu to think that detention in this circumstance is wrong, as it's often out of the child's control?

It seems to have been a good policy though - as you went and drove them into school rather than them being late.

Very unreasonable of the school.
I'm autistic with time keeping being one of my triggers. I'd have already been seriously stressed at the buses going past (I always leave with way more than enough time, used to arrive at school before the teachers 🤣). But if I ever was late then I wouldn't have gone in at all. I just couldn't have walked in to a classroom where the class/form time had already started. I like/need to be the first in that type of thing. If I'd have got detention for that too, well that would have meant me leaving home for school evem earlier.

*just to add detention was my idea of heaven. Sitting in a room all by myself, not needing to cope with all the playground politics. Obviously I wasn't diagnosed (cos I was a girl), but the combination of my autism and ADHD meant I got a LOT of detentions all the way through high school

If I'm late getting started with work because of something outside my control, I still work extra time to finish whatever I needed to do. Most people do, or some shift workers might have pay docked, or persistent lateness might lead to a disciplinary. Your child was late, it's ok to discuss it as just making up time, and how things occur at work. Sometimes you suck it up, use the time wisely to get on with homework and work out if there are other options to get in next time like a bike / other bus / etc.

The OP isn't talking about repeated lateness.
This thread is about rare events due to circumstances beyond her DCs control.

In the real world, no halfway decent employer would sanction anyone for that.
Inability to comprehend simple information and respond to what was actually said, otoh....

Agree. Adults also typically have more transport options than children.

I really wouldn't consider a full bus in the morning to be a "rare event", and don't think it's helpful to suggest it is, because this situation will undoubtedly happen again. It sounds like there are lots of other bus options, so learning alternative routes would be the best approach.

We are doing the bus stop selfie and screen shot the bus app to show localtuon/time.

DC is 11 and has just started senior school. When I say 30 min all in, there's a walk both ends so thr 7.35 bus would mean they're at school at 7.45. I'd rather they weren't standing around 15 min waiting to get on the premises, and then still have an hour before lessons happen.
This week there seems to have been a problem with the service but it's not communicated clearly by the operator. This mornings bus was a different model to the usual, with a luggage rack taking the place of at least 6 seats. However, it arrived just a few minutes late, and all was well.
If it were a dedicated school service then I'm sure it would be less of an issue.

I understand lateness has an impact but sometimes it is beyond control.

In a lot of cases of transport problems, the parent wouldn't be able to do that.
DDs school bus was occasionally late - quite often the traffic problem (once, memorably, due to cows on the road) would have meant that if we had driven up road to reach her we'd just have been further back in the same jam.
Fortunately her school was sensible, staffed by people who live in the real world where transport problems beyond anyones control happen, rather than some unreal world where everything runs smoothly.

Usually lateness only means missing a bit of registration/form time /assembly so it shouldn't be massively disruptive - if a school can't manage some late registrations there's something wrong with their admin.

As one of your children is autistic op, it may be worth having a conversation with the school about a reasonable adjustment around this. My DD (now 16), ASD/ ADHD was so paralysed with anxiety about being late and getting a detention it was actually making her risk being late as she was having a meltdown every morning - counter productive! So we talked to the school they were able to give her some reassurance that late detention is not likely as she was getting to school on time and if she was in a meltdown and we contacted the school she would not be put in detention if that made her late. Communication is really key to help manage anxious rule driven kids. Particularly from the school as parental reassurance is only worth so much!

Yes this does sound wrong.

I would email the school and ask to speak to someone about their policy.

I would hope they would be open to discussing and understanding situations that could arise, causing lateness, and how the worry of this affects some children. Being late is not always due to their own actions or preventable, so suffering a consequence such as detention seems particularly unfair.

I think it's a good policy because it teaches children that sometimes they will suffer because of things that are outside of their control. The rule is simple, lateness = detention, there should be no exceptions. In adult life I've often had situations where I had to be somewhere on time or suffer negative consequences. In a previous job I was deducted pay for being late, at one period this was happening at least once per week because the trains were so useless. It happens, either accept the punishment or find another way to get there on time.

And it's these sorts of detentions that are helping to add to the anxiety and MH difficulties young people are increasingly suffering with.

When you remove the ability for a young person to ever be able to do the right thing it's damaging. They become anxious because they can't do the right thing because it's wrong.

I work in pastoral care in schools and work with some very vulnerable young people and I'm often having to remind staff that ultimately most children want to do the right thing and learn independence skills.

The most important thing we can do is listen and bend the rules when it's clear they didn't intend to break them - reinforce the rules - show them how to get it right next time - and next time remind them and give them a chance to turn it around.

Punishments are only useful teaching tools when it's a deliberate action and with a chance to get it right they make a choice to continue getting it wrong knowing the outcome.

Losing pay is a natural consequence if you did not work the time. Children already have the consequence of missing lesson time and having to catch up on missed content in their own time. If the detention was used for them to go over notes on what was missed or complete missed work then it would useful. That would be a natural consequence.

@itsgettingweird
Your reply to mine was spot on.
So this was winter. After school I would go to my cleaning job. I wouldn't be home until 7pm. It was dark, the only way of getting home was to walk down a walk way which was not well lit and could be quite quiet.
I took my phone to school so I could have my phone on me for the walk home.
As I say the battery was always removed in school.

If I am late for work, I always let my boss know. I did what is expected of an adult.
My mum was furious with the school and kicked up a stink. Not for the late detention but the fact I was punished for having my phone. I had explained to the teacher why I had my phone. My mum said they should have congratulated me that I was working and being mature enough to make a phone call as an adult would be expected to do so.
I explained to my boss at the time why I would be late for my job the next day. She gave me the day off...paid. So I did get some sort of good back to me.

What a fab boss.

And I bet they taught you far more in their kind and positive actions than you learned from the detention?

If we want young people to do the right thing we need to show them why.

I had a new pupil this week cause complete havoc one afternoon. And I mean carnage 🫣 🤣

I explained our boundaries. Explained why we would not tolerate that behaviour ever.

I said that they were clearly struggling with the demands placed on them and found out their interests.

We agreed they could work towards time doing that interest at the end of each day. We agreed they wouldn't get a positive mark towards gaining it for x y and z. We set an achievable target of 3/5 positive marks possible a day to earn reward and I told them clearly this would be increasing as the term went on but I wanted to give them a chance and have a chance to turn it around if they cocked up a lesson.

This was Tuesday afternoon.

They've managed to get all 10 positive points and have been a model student the past 2 days. They will have blips. They have severe attachment difficulties but we'll move on and remind them about our expectations and that they can do it.

Punishment would have just increased the attachment difficulties with me and I'd have probably never ended up reaching them and them not having the chance at a better future.

They also know that certain behaviours will be an automatic detention!

It's why good employers tend to have lower sickness and less lateness and more flexible employees.

People always respond better if they know you alleviate them for putting in the effort.

If your child is autistic, there should be special allowances made as part of their care plan that they won't get detention for unavoidable lateness. Our school also does not give detentions for lateness where there has been a genuine transport issue.

Well I suppose there is the argument that it teaches kids to deal with petty officialdom with no common sense.
It it not lawful to dock wages for lateness, by the way.

Anyway kids are kids, they are not adults.