I don't want to be 'reigned over' anymore

[Yubgftr]

While I totally respect the Queen and how she served the country, I think it's now a good time to end the monarchy as I think modern society has outgrown it.

Just the idea that someone inherits the job of head of state through birthright and reigns over us peasants is crazy in this modern age. Then all the ceremonies, titles, line of succession are remnants of a completely different era and tbh remind me of episodes of The Tudors or Game of Thrones, it's just so archaic and out of place.

I think having to bow and curtsey to people just because they were born or married into a special family also seems ridiculous. Why should I have to curtsey to any of them? Not saying I'd be rude or disrespectful but having to bend my knee to a set of people as if they were deities, it's just insane! I think I'd actually feel humiliated.

I also don't get the fawning and crying outside the palace - by all means be respectful and recognise her contribution but crying about someone you've never met? To me it's OTT

Back in medieval times when there was little education and religion was used to manipulate the masses, I can understand why all the peasants went mad for their sovereign and saw them as annointed by God etc etc but we're much more enlightened now (most of us!) so we need to make way for a new way of doing things.

Even a new national anthem - why is it all about the king or queen and god saving them? Why not about the people, the nation as a whole?

That said, I also hate the idea of someone like Boris Johnson being head of state and I bet that's a role he'd go for if we were a Republic. Swings and Roundabouts!

YABU - God save the king, monarchy forever
YANBU - time to end the monarchy

This is silly Most people in the UK want to retain the monarchy

That is an interesting assumption. And how would you know? The general public are never asked the question!

As an admittedly small snapshot look at the voting percentages on this thread. The issue is not as clear cut as you might like to think. Up to this week here have been many many threads on Mumsnet saying that now would be a good time to end the monarchy.

Referendums can take years of planning, and one will only be called if there's a significant change of constitutional change. Did you really think the Queen would die and the monarchy would just cease to exist for a bit while a referendum nobody asked for was held?

With the technologies that currently exist, a referendum needn't take three years to organise and if it became a standard procedure following the death of a monarch then it could be built in to the protocols following the death of a monarch.

The last time I looked we lived in a democracy which means the ability to lobby ones MP to agitate for change and having to tolerate views of the populace that may not correspond with one's own. It doesn't mean blocking the ability of reasonable people to express those views in a civilised manner or telling them to leave the country!

I'm not a great monarchist (and for the record, left of centre, ardent Remainer) but don't fancy the alternative. Thanks to the queen, we did not have President Thatcher, or President Blair, or god help us President Johnson. And the panoply makes for good circuses.

Why do you like it?
What do you do thats loyal?

There is a,reason for that.

I could not agree more with you. The monarchy is outdated and crass in the current climate of so much poverty.

For those who go on about the millions they bring in tourism. The tourists would still come. The history and historic buildings still stand. Plenty of countries no longer have a monarchy and people still visit.

I am actually surprised in this day and age so many people disagree with you OP. I find their wealth disgusting.

Surely royalty doesn't change and that's the wonder of it in an ever changing world.
I'd like to see the general public learn more about the system and all it's idiosyncrasies.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/institution/The_British_Monarchy

Support currently at 62%

Opinion polling is a generally accepted way of determining public opinion. There's no need for endless referenda especially when the answer is clear.

This. Non one’s making you live in a country with a hereditary monarchy.

Off you pop and don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out

I'm expressing no opinion on the monarchy one way or the other however, what an absurd attitude. No country would ever improve if people who had ideas on how they thought it could be improved simply left because they didn't agree with the status quo. If you don't agree with them, pose your counter argument and discuss it like an adult. Demonstrate why your view is more coherent or rational, or would have better outcomes.

And go where? It's unlikely that anybody can find a country where they agree with every single aspect of law, politics, fiscal policy, structural constitution, culture etc, isn't it? Unless they have no functioning brain or independent thought.

Your response seems incredibly childish and to be honest I'd expect a more nuanced and intelligent response from a teenager studying politics for the first time. It's very reminiscent of the typical Brexit supporter response... I don't suppose you voted for that as well did you?

The main reason I don’t support a constitutional monarchy is because it gives government more power lessening checks and balances on that power. I would like a largely ceremonial Head of State that has some limited powers such as the Irish Head of State system. When Johnson wrongly prorogued Parliament the Crown was powerless in effect to stop it. This time the judiciary did its job but a head of State would be another check and balance to such a situation.

Quite a lot has changed about royalty in the last 30 years. They started paying taxes, marrying commoners, getting divorced, being named in civil suits. I could go on.

Everything changes.

I just don’t get the OP’s strength of feeling.

do you work in a job where it is difficult to avoid having to curtesy? Is this something that is impacting your life every single day?

personally I find it quite easy to avoid situations in which I might need to curtesy.

I’m with you op. I’m actually repulsed by this adoration and grief over a family who are just an archaic tradition. And yes, as far as I can see there is a massive correlation with adoring the monarchy and brexit. The little people suffering the most bowing to the obscenely wealthy lord and master. Bloody embarrassing!

Sure people would still visit U.K. if no monarchy, but I think fewer would (eg they may choose to visit France or Germany instead). They could still visit Buckingham palace, but maybe spend less - not buy memorabilia or go on an extra tour. As an immigrant and preferring the ‘living history’ re-enactments to museum artefacts behind glass, I would rather watch something with a royal family (whose ancestors did the same sort of ceremonies) than actors or changing presidents. I guess it’s just a personal preference and interest.

To add to above, for those of us who support a Republic a referendum would be required and Parliament will only do that if enough of the people make clear they want it so behoves those of us who support a parliamentary republic to campaign for a referendum.

That's exactly why they did it so quickly. A fair accompli. And who would then possibly be so mean as to argue with a man who has just lost his mother? Very clever. But deniable because "this is the tradition" as it used to be essential to have a new monarch in place immediately because they were the ruler of the nation. So false equivalence and "procedures" used to justify a railroading of continuation. All planned in detail long ago, in anticipation of this moment. Speeches pre-written etc. Detailed plan of this mourning period etc - all drawn up for that purpose. The monarchy will do whatever it can to survive and protect its obscene and largely obscured assets and convince everyone else that this is in their interests. It's how it works, and has always worked.

I'm so glad someone has come along and said this, I agree with everything you've said. I've been wanting to say it but feared I'd be torn to shreds. Nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking...

All the "leave the country if you don't support the monarchy" comments are ridiculous. Almost as if those posters don't really understand the long history of freedom of political expression and reform. Blind obedience and intolerance of peaceful political discussion is not a particularly British value, so maybe those posters who support it should be finding somewhere else to "pop off" to.

As a basic starting point, why do you think you have to bow and curtesy to anyone? Aside from the official “rules” (ie you don’t have to), when, in the duration of your lifetime, have you ever bowed or curtsied to anyone?

I would much rather have the soft power of our monarchy than the clusterfuck of, say, the US system.

I agree entirely. That episode, for me, undermined the purpose of us having a monarchy: the Queen didn't feel able to exercise her power when it was most essential to do so. A head of state in my opinion - elected or not - should have very limited powers. But the elected Parliament being illegally disbanded was when I expected her to step in. She didn't. That shows the weakness of our system and that as you say, the checks and balances required have vanished.

They can't be ceremonial but officially hold these powers unless in times of extremity like that the powers will be used. If their role is ceremonial only then those powers need to be passed to somebody who can exercise them when it is necessary. I don't care if they remain in a ceremonial role or not - I find it trivial. But somebody needs to be able to oversee Parliament and if the Head of State cannot stop it being illegally disbanded then we are in a very dangerous position indeed.

I like your point, but don't you suppose that if an elected head of state had defied Johnson it would have ended up in court anyway, and probably after a lot of damaging wrangling? And given that the court did its job is there really a problem

I used to feel the same as you. Then it finally dawned on me what they are actually there for. Soft diplomacy. So so fucking powerful. In plain speak it’s like good cop, bad cop. We can have our politicians slate countries polticicians / dictators and the queen could still invite them for dinner or hold inviting them for dinner over their heads. It seems silly but it actually works.

Whether Charles has the coy panache to pull it off to the same level - only time will tell. It’s a fine balancing act.

Also the reason everyone got so pissed with Harry and Megan - because it only works if you keep your mouth shut. Again not convinced Charles will be able to but will give him the chance.

I agree. It's not very nice and I wouldn't say it.

But it is a bit vexing getting the feeling that people think you're a wannabee Jacob Rees-Mogg, just poor, because you support the monarchy.

The monarchy has no bearing on my day to day life whatsoever, except for the 1.29 per year or whatever small sum it is that everyone pays for their maintenance, and if people think that its abolition would make for a more democratic, more equal society, they are deluded, in my view. I agree with PPs that having a non-elected head of state spares the awfulness of President Thatcher or President Johnson. My mum always said that the queen reigns but the government rules and that distinction makes sense to me.

And given that the court did its job is there really a problem

Are you serious? Our elected Parliament was prevented from exercising its powers, invested in it by voters. Yes that is a problem. A HUGE problem. Debate was prevented. MPs were left helpless to respond in the best interests of their constituents - which is their legal duty - as they were trying to do before this illegal act was committed.

Not to mention that the person who carried out this illegal activity and lied to the Head of State was allowed to continue in office?

I bet the Queen wished at that point that she still had the authority to do us all a favour and to have him carted off to the Tower.

Of course it is a problem. 🤣 You win the most absurd post of the day (that I have had the misfortune to come across). 🏆

I’m not a monarchist but I do have concerns about the calibre of president we’d end up with, bankrolled by god-knows-whom.

And if the union broke up Scotland and Wales would probably get a cool president like JK Rowling and Michael Sheen and England would end up with some chinless dross or a dodgy entrepreneur.