I don't want to be 'reigned over' anymore

[Yubgftr]

While I totally respect the Queen and how she served the country, I think it's now a good time to end the monarchy as I think modern society has outgrown it.

Just the idea that someone inherits the job of head of state through birthright and reigns over us peasants is crazy in this modern age. Then all the ceremonies, titles, line of succession are remnants of a completely different era and tbh remind me of episodes of The Tudors or Game of Thrones, it's just so archaic and out of place.

I think having to bow and curtsey to people just because they were born or married into a special family also seems ridiculous. Why should I have to curtsey to any of them? Not saying I'd be rude or disrespectful but having to bend my knee to a set of people as if they were deities, it's just insane! I think I'd actually feel humiliated.

I also don't get the fawning and crying outside the palace - by all means be respectful and recognise her contribution but crying about someone you've never met? To me it's OTT

Back in medieval times when there was little education and religion was used to manipulate the masses, I can understand why all the peasants went mad for their sovereign and saw them as annointed by God etc etc but we're much more enlightened now (most of us!) so we need to make way for a new way of doing things.

Even a new national anthem - why is it all about the king or queen and god saving them? Why not about the people, the nation as a whole?

That said, I also hate the idea of someone like Boris Johnson being head of state and I bet that's a role he'd go for if we were a Republic. Swings and Roundabouts!

YABU - God save the king, monarchy forever
YANBU - time to end the monarchy

The Royal Family doesn’t do any actual ruling.

We’re perfectly happy to have someone in charge.

'The British people are not politely given a choice. We are forced to protest and cause upset if we want a republic. All I am asking for is a legitimate mechanism by which one could vote to retain or abolish the monarchy which would be triggered each time the previous monarch dies. That seems fair to me in the 21st century.'

Referendums can take years of planning, and one will only be called if there's a significant change of constitutional change. Did you really think the Queen would die and the monarchy would just cease to exist for a bit while a referendum nobody asked for was held?

Chance of constitutional change

Yes of course I have but times have changed since Richard the Lionheart. Therefore I did not know how this transition would be managed in current times.

@porkmarkets I think quite a few people have been asking for a referendum for some time. And I think we’ll have one. Certainly not immediately, but I don’t foresee the RF lasting beyond William, if that.

I agree completely. To me the Royal Family is an outdated, classist and corrupt institution and there is so much misinformation about its ‘worth’ to our nation. I would much prefer an elected head of state, which has worked well for countries like France, Ireland and Finland, to give some examples. However, I accept that people are entitled to royalist views if they have them, and what disappoints me most on this thread is seeing royalists telling republicans to ‘get out of the country’ if they express an anti-monarchy opinion. That is a terrible authoritarian opinion and goes against freedom of speech

This is silly.

Most people in the UK want to retain the monarchy.

If there was enough of an appetite for change, the government of the day would put it to a referendum. There is no reason to believe this wouldn't happen.

As of now there is no reason to believe there is any point in a referendum. The result would be inevitable so it would be an enormous waste of public money.

You need to accept that supporting a continued monarchy is a mainstream viewpoint and entirely consistent with democratic values.

As far as I can see, it's the republicans asking for a conversation and for the question to be considered a democratic matter, while it's the monarchists who sometimes have trouble with accepting that "others have a different opinion and agree to disagree" — it's monarchists saying that those who don't like living under a monarchy should leave the country rather than asking if its constitutional setup can or should be made more democratic, and monarchists complaining (not on this thread, but elsewhere) that we shouldn't be discussing whether we should have a monarchy now, when the post-holder has just changed, because it's disrespectful or inappropriate or not sufficiently deferential.

There is a conversation going on. It's a free society. No one is disallowing a conversation, it's just that most people aren't interested.

100% this. ^ Put so much better than I could put it.

Sadly for the Anti Royalists, the Royals ain't going ANYWHERE!

They're here to stay. Suck it up buttercup. You can moan and whine about them and stamp your feet at how (allegedly) unfair it is that they exist, but it will make no difference. Your numbers are too few. Shame.

By the thousands that turned out today to see the Queens coffin. Absolute thousands. And that isn't relevant. Uneducated.

OP sorry about all the 'off you pop', what a childish response. It's more patriotic to care about problems in your country and want to change them than to accept things the way they are and tell critics to just go away. Not that patriotism is a cardinal virtue anyway.

I object to the monarchy because it is the linchpin of Britain's corrupt, non-merit-based, frankly parasitic establishment. As is only too evident in the way loyalties that were supposed to be based on the Queen's personal excellence are now being transferred with great ease to her rather less impressive son.

^This^

A great many people want a referendum in NZ given our colonial history and the harm the monarchy did to the indigenous population @TomPinch

TBH I was a little surprised that Jacinda Arden stated she wouldn’t be presently looking to hold a referendum given her own views on monarchy, and the hunger from many quarters to get rid them but looking at a recent study the institution still enjoys the support of some New Zealanders, particularly those born before World War II. However themajority of younger New Zealanders support a republic.

Australia is more conservative so I’m not entirely shocked, but NZ is modern and fairly left wing. I think once the boomers die out or even before NZ will hold a referendum and become a republic. I have many friends in both countries having lived in both who are fairly keen to get rid of the RF.

But that’s by the by, if you aren’t practicing COE, why would you support the royals and their claim to hereditary rule?

I can't believe we'll be going through all this again in 10-15 years' time! Surely not so much pomp next time.

I voted YABU. I’m an immigrant and anti Brexit. I think on balance the monarchy bring in more interest and tourist dollars than a president.

I personally have more interest in attending a ceremony with a monarch (eg coronation, opening of parliment) than if a president did it. Presidential elections every 5 or 7 years would cost money and be more of the same politicians. I would rather see stuff like the gowns and Crown Jewels used rather than sat in a museum.

I get that they don’t deserve it and it’s not ‘fair’, but I think the Queen (and actually also King Charles) has persuaded me of some of the benefits of constitutional monarchy - they work for many years, under lots of media scrutiny, seem to try hard and make a positive contribution. I don’t envy the restrictions they have and media intrusion.

You said in the OP we are more enlightened, but are we? Access to books, education, information and opportunity to learn about faith, culture and history.... and we sit on social media putting our best pictures out while measuring ourselves up in every way you can think of to others. We are basically idiots.

I like the monarchy we have, and have had, I do not think it is a demanding reign, it is a gentle one and I think we get a fairly good deal tbh. From what I have read I believe the country is financially better off from our monarchy, although it is always going to be subjectively measured but the numbers are impressive!

I just think the vacuum that would be left by the end of the monarchy would be filled with more celebrity trash. I've never met the Royal family and they don't infringe upon my life other than the things I choose to know about them. If there was a vote I would be voting for it to stay.

We moved to New Zealand the month just after Diana died. I was shocked how Royalist they were. I worked on a day unit at a hospital and there was a huge picture of the Queen permanently displayed. I guess times may have changed now.

@MargotChateau

This isn't true. There's not much evidence that people here care much either way. That's why the demands for a republic are from a group just as niche as die-hard monarchists, and there won't be a referendum.

It's no different to the flag referendum. It was the prime minister's pet project, most people thought it a waste of time and voted to retain the existing flag.

And as for your first paragraph, it's worth noting that Maori felt it was all Pakeha business and hardly any supported the replacement flag. What do you suppose they'd think about a settler republic with regards to the Treaty of Waitangi?

My reason for supporting a continued monarchy is that constitutional arrangements that work shouldn't be disturbed.

This! And the morons just telling the OP to leave are ridiculous. Are we not allowed to question or want change?

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm genuinely interested, why did you reply like that?

oh yes democracy and referendums they work well for us generally don’t they

I couldn’t agree more.

I have always respected the Queen for her sense of duty and personal sacrifice in devoting her life to the job. To know from a very young age that your life is mapped out for you and there is nothing you can do to change it, accept that and do the best you can to carry out that role flawlessly for 70 years is remarkable and I take my hat off to her.

However, you can hold respect for a person while not holding any respect for the institution.

Unfortunately there is a tendency in the British psyche to enjoy the bowing and scraping and pomp and ceremony involved in monarchy and aristocracy, with a bizarre belief that this is inherent to our national identity. Know your place seems to be engrained into many with little desire to question the rights and wrongs of historical inherited privilege and how damaging it is to social mobility and progress.

While it is seen as acceptable for 1% of the population to own 90% of the nation’s land, while it is seen as acceptable for one family, through birth and not merit, to represent an entire country and live in luxury at their expense, while it is seen as acceptable for a monarch to live in a 100+ room palace at the heart of a city where a third of its children live in poverty, we will never see any meaningful societal change that will improve the life changes of everyone.

And depressingly, it is most often those who are most exploited by the class system who support its perpetuation. Just as people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds vote Tory and voted for Brexit, they seem to want to stroke the hand that bites them.

We would be a better country without a monarchy, which is an anachronistic institution in a modern society, representing everything that is most unpleasant about our nation.

And for all of those who claim that our tourism would disappear without the monarchy, that is absolute nonsense. The most visited country in the world is France, and the most visited monument is Versailles. I don’t think I need to add anything more to that fact for you to see my point.

Vive le republic is what I say. No more fawning over utter nonentities. The cringing and forelock tugging I’ve seen on tv over the past few days is truly nauseating.

And @Sparklybutold the money they generate far outweighs what they cost. They generate their own income too through their estates, but basically they have an agreement to get 25% (which will be reduced once work to Buckingham Palace is finished) from the income from the Crown Estate, the rest goes to the government. Other costs (security and royal ceremonies) is covered by income generated by another portafolio of land and other assets.
If you take in to account the amount of tourist money they generate - they are a very good deal (not to mention the many people they employ).
One could argue that if the monarchy was abolished the assets could be handed back to the government (though many asserts are personally held). But this doesn't take into account the millions generated by tourism, the uplift from products and services holding a Royal Warrant, the thousand of people that are employed directly and indirectly, the businesses that survive by producing commemorative items, souvenirs etc. and the fact the reason much of the income from the Crown estate is generated because there IS a royal family.

Wow some of the posts on here are astonishing!

OP it is my view that if we had a referendum on this issue tomorrow, the vote would be in favour of retaining the monarchy. I personally find this ludicrous, but then the same could be said about the death penalty for murder - which would also most likely win a popular vote.

I am not willing to leave the UK because of this tho; there are other factors I find appealing about living here (not least that my job would be difficult for me to do in another country). I don't think that my view that we should not have a royal family means that I should leave, any more than someone objecting to, say, the system of electing MPs should leave. The answer is surely to campaign for what we believe, or at the very least investigate and interrogate the alternatives and vote accordingly, when possible.

And yes, there is a considerable difference between a monarchy based on heredity and an elected president. I also do not believe that people who come to London hoping to see the royals (do they?) would then not come if they no longer ruled. You can go and look at Schonbrunn palace or Versailles, and they still seem to draw the crowds even tho you are unlikely to meet Marie Antoinette. In either palace.