AIBU .. to work on 19 September?

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

It's the first day back at work for me and the first day of freshers week. Of course the student activity planned for the day will not take place but I'd got several meetings planned with colleagues and student ambassadors as well as a couple of employers. These meetings will affect what we do in the rest of the week.

It's not about not showing respect or not caring about the queen and nothing whatsoever to do with the social side of university or drinking activities. Yes we can rearrange some things. But it's going to be rather awkward and have a knock on effect on the following week when the returners come back.

If the others are amenable - and I'm aware they might not be - I want to have the meetings, probably on Zoom.

AIBU?

I agree - it’s really ill-thought through.

Like @ImJustMadAboutSaffron it’s going to make MORE work for many people, many people will lose income, and many people will not be able not to work.

I think those castigating @ImJustMadAboutSaffron need to think this through a bit more.

If you genuinely think there is no power imbalance between you and students then there a bigger issues here.
It doesn't matter how well you know them.

senior academic staff want to do something, it sets a certain 'tone at the top' which then permeates. I'm quite surprised you don't understand this. I'm not saying they definitely will be perceived poorly - quite the reverse, more likely you will be - but a junior member of staff might worry that they could be, by saying no.

The thing is, that at department level senior academic staff tend to pick up the work if others decline to do it. It’s easy to say - “Let the management sort it out” but at department level, managers sort it out by working extra themselves.

The work still needs to be done. And one only has to look at public commentary on tuition fees etc - you parents expect that everything is laid on for your DC at university, while kvetching about tuition fees.

Who do you think does the work in an underfunded system? People like @ImJustMadAboutSaffron and her department colleagues. If we academics worked strictly out 37 hours per week, and took all the holidays due us, the university system would fall apart within a couple of months.

I strongly suspect that people who were furloughed are the same people who are insisting that they are not going to work on the sudden Bank Holiday, and that anyone who does work is "disrespectful" or "uncaring".

It's always the people who are basically paid to do sod all who are happy to inflict their days off on other people who don't have that luxury.

@ImJustMadAboutSaffron I would be happy for you to contact me if I were one of the people whom you were supposed to be meeting, and I'd be happy to go ahead. It would be another job ticked off the list.

Only one of these people is employed by the University. This is another senior lecturer. I don't for one second imagine they'd refer to the head of department if I suggest they have a short meeting with me next Monday. We don't work like that. We have agency.

The employers I'm talking about own their companies and wouldn't have to ask permission.

And this is 100% true (I resigned from a Senior Lectureship some years ago because things were so bad; I can only imagine they are even worse now).

What’s furlough got to do with anything?

I wasn’t furloughed. My teams were, for a short period. I haven’t even spoken to them about the bank holiday.

I just wouldn’t ask them. Despite that meaning (as it does every bank holiday) that we have to do 5 days in work in 4. If they ask me to work, that’s fine. I won’t be asking them.

and this is my first job that’s actually had all bank holidays off.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder that some people get bank holidays and some don’t. That’s a problem with your thinking.

@TheCallerWithheldTheirNumber I agree with you.

This is all getting very boring now. Some people will take the BH off and be paid, some people will take the BH off and not get paid, some people will not find their work impacted, for others the BH will cause chaos at work and / or home.

There is no right or wrong.

However the amount of people insisting that it is disrespectful to work if needed on that day is ridiculous and shows a lack of empathy towards people for whom an unexpected BH causes chaos.

That's OK. Just do the few quick zooms so you can set up the following week ? Don't fancy it? Probably don't ask others to do it on their bank holiday ..

Well that's wrong, I was furloughed and I'd happily go to work on the 19th, I don't care about the royals. Furlough was not a choice, in case you forgot. I'd sooner have been at work rather than my pay reduced by 20%.

Did the consultant also call the nurses, HCAs , secretaries and admin to tell them to come in on a bank holiday or arrange locum rates for them? What a doughnut.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder that some people get bank holidays and some don’t. That’s a problem with your thinking

Not in fact. I accept that bank holidays happen throughout the year. However, I find it immensely frustrating that the people who can just take the time off unexpectedly because their jobs and livelihoods are safe can't understand that there's nothing wrong or disrespectful about asking other people to carry on as normal. There's very much an 'us' and 'them' when it comes to unexpected time off/cancellations.

In fact the bank holiday doesn't matter a flying fuck to me as I'll be working and my work on that Monday won't involve anyone else. I have no particular interest in the funeral - or not enough to give myself a day off. And I'm not remotely anti-monarchy.

In@ImJustMadAboutSaffron's case, if she can't do the work on Monday, she'll end up with a massive admin headache later on in the week. University teachers always end up picking up the slack themselves; there's nobody to whom you can delegate. Asking someone to attend a short meeting/have a short Zoom on the unexpected bank holiday is very different from failing to plan to accommodate a bank holiday which you have known about all year. And she certainly shouldn't give up her annual leave (planned in advance), though I dare say that if something came up unexpectedly during her leave, she'd end up dealing with it. Because that's what university teachers do.

@freckles20 I hope some other parents are offered appointments for Monday instead of those for whom a bank holiday is more important than their children's attendance at a clinic. If I had a child on the list, I'd be ringing up in the hope of there having been cancellations on that day!

do not want people to give up their bank holiday. I've never said that at all and have no idea why you think that.

really? You can’t see how asking people to attend meetings on a bank holiday is asking them to give up their bank holiday? You surely must see it’s the same thing.

totally agree that this toxic atmosphere is endemic in academia. The unspoken disapproval, the expectations, the phonecalls at 6pm, at 8am. Emails from SLT at 11pm

It’s akin to me saying I don’t celebrate Christmas and therefore asking people if they mind attending some zoom meetings on Xmas day.

@QuebecBagnet "totally agree that this toxic atmosphere is endemic in academia. The unspoken disapproval, the expectations, the phonecalls at 6pm, at 8am. Emails from SLT at 11pm"

None of the above has ever applied in my job. Ever.

I think I would send a message to everyone saying something like:

"Hi All. I am still working on 19th September. I assume no one else wants to keep the meeting we had scheduled on that date now it's a bank holiday, in which case please let me know of below dates, which ones you could reschedule for. Alternatively, if anyone does still want to meet on 19th I am available at the original time. Just let me know. Please reply all to this so everyone can see our mutual availability."

And then whatever meeting scheduling system you use after the message, Doodle or a table to fill in, etc. My less-techie colleagues no longer find Doodle easy to use. One colleague sends around a table of dates+times for people to put initials or Xs next to as it (re)circulates. That works reasonably well. Obviously colleague starts table with the only times she is available.

Well thankfully being asked to work on a bank holiday has never applied in my job, ever.

and I would view that as 100x worse than all the early morning and evening stuff which does go on.

I think that’s really shit. What if you’re the one person who really does not want to attend the meeting but all your colleagues have “replied all” saying yes ok. The pressure that last person would be under to say yes even though they don’t want to.

ps: can also agree with OP that none of the allegations about unspoken approval endless emails, phone calls etc applies. I don't deal with SLT. tbh, my huge problem is people who never reply at all ever to my emails. Academics and civil servants. I have a long list of emails sent in last month that no one replied to and that I do need to do some kind of action about. It's frustrating and yet entirely my norm. The hilarious thing was a colleague (X) saying how she "couldn't handle it" if people ignored her emails. Another colleague (Y) on same meeting promptly said to X "You recently ignored my email". Now I'm in the position that an email I sent to X & Y 3 weeks ago has been... totally ignored. Ho hum.

And it goes against Athena Swan principles. Remember schools are shut so such practices are not inclusive of women who are the ones more likely to be sorting out childcare issues. My uni would have a fit if I tried something like this.

You probably work in an industry where people actually answer emails, Quebec. You haven't mastered the art of entirely ignoring them the way many of my academic & civil servant colleagues do (!!)

I’m a senior lecturer and course leader so am fairly used to it. However I do answer emails myself, maybe I ought to sink to the same level as everyone else.

Excellent point

Good grief, the complete lack of self awareness that you possess is astonishing. You're insisting that you ask people to work on a bank holiday, yet you don't think you're part of the problem. What you're doing is absolutely an example of the problem. That and the fact that you don't think there's a power imbalance between a senior Lecturer and students just reiterates that. You really haven't a clue how your behaviour affects others do you? Or you just don't care.

Quebec Bagnet understands it - the 'unspoken disapproval'. I work in the sector and do waaaaaay more hours than I'm paid for due to this from senior leadership of the institution. You're seen as good at your job if you're a yes person, basically, and 'negative' and 'inflexible' if you're not. And absolutely it impacts those with children, or other responsibilities outside work such as caring, more. I knew as soon as this thread was started that the OP didn't have children.
As a parent you read so much about how having children impacts your career, and how you are seen as not prioritising your job anymore. So when these situations come up, you don't want to be seen as saying no 'because the schools are shut and the children are at home' because that will propagate the 'not as dedicated to the job since she had kids' thing and impact your career long term 🙄