republicans, over here!

[arghpleasestop]

OK, it's been 24 hours now.

Can I say it yet?

Long live the king - any king! - you must be joking. How on earth can it be the 21st century and there is still a hereditary monarchy of 'special people with the right blood' who wear crowns, live in palaces and play a formal role in politics?

I can see from other threads that others feel upset and are following it all closely. This thread is not to deny those feelings and for sure Queen E worked hard shaking hands for a long time - but to say, WTF, bring on the republic please.

[cakeorwine]

@Florenz

Netherlands is a monarchy
Belgium is a monarchy
Japan is a monarchy
Sweden is a monarchy
Norway is a monarchy
Denmark is a monarchy
Spain is a monarchy

I'd rather have a head of state that is there by birthright, than one who gets themself there by political machinations.

And there are many countries which aren't monarchies.

Personally I think it will become irrelevant.
A Truman show for people who are obsessed by people and the clothes they wear.

[Ticksallboxes]

My dear departed Mum always maintained that the Royal Family are essential to stop this country ever descending into fascism. I have blindly believed her.

[OnaBegonia]

I've been surprised by ppl on my SM who I had no inclination were royalist and here they are posting weepy nonsense.

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

On what way did the Queen actually provide stability?

[Lunar270]

@Ticksallboxes

My dear departed Mum always maintained that the Royal Family are essential to stop this country ever descending into fascism. I have blindly believed her.

Interesting.

What did she think about the lives of regular people before the monarchy realised they needed to treat us plebs nicely, if they didn't want to be overthrown?

The monarchy PR machine is relatively new, if you're familiar with history. Till then I'm not sure what you'd call it but was closer to facism than a democracy.

Nowadays the royals talk about 'serving' the public and I'd bloody well think so, given we bank roll the lot of them. However, not long ago we were all forced to serve them in whatever capacity they could imagine.

[Ticksallboxes]

@LakieLady

Thank fuck for this thread. I was beginning to think I was in a minority of one.

I want to live in a meritocracy, and be a citizen rather than a subject.

This!!

I am so sad for her death and wept buckets for Diana back in the day. But reading all this is a bit of a Matrix moment for me TBH.

[sleepwouldbenice]

Yawn

[Florenz]

If we had an elected president we'd have to bankroll them too. And there would be a lot of elected presidents in 70 years to pay for. Not to mention their families and hangers on/sycophants.

[Lunar270]

I'd rather bankroll a democratically elected president than a socially constructed elite.

[dottypencilcase]

Thank OP- the voice of reason at last!!!

[Florenz]

@Lunar270

I'd rather bankroll a democratically elected president than a socially constructed elite.

Even if it was someone like Boris, or Trump?

[RilkeanHeart]

I’ve found my people! We’re entitled not to buy into it all. Although you wouldn’t think so from the browbeating by the BBC, politicians and brands, all trying to outdo each other in performative mourning. So sick of being told what the ‘whole nation’ feels.

[cakeorwine]

@Florenz

Even if it was someone like Boris, or Trump?

And that's why we would have a Constitution, a separate judiciary, an elected Second Chamber and rules to follow.

We could have had King Andrew.

Trump went rogue, but there was a system in place to ensure that power was balanced and checked.

A President does not need to have political power and should not be involved in making laws or decisions. They have a role in ensuring that elected politicians follow the law and the Constitution

[Discovereads]

@VivX

That was nearly 400 years - so we should never try again, ever, despite a republic system working perfectly well for lots of other countries...

By that logic, people should never have had another attempt at inventing aeroplanes because it didn't work out for Da Vinci.

Thank goodness everyone is not like you, as we'd all still be living in caves.

A pure republic has also not worked at all well for many other countries as well. It’s not the fail safe, awesome, cannot go wrong solution you think it is. Look at how fucked up the US is, republic, how fucked up China is, republic, how fucked up Russia is, also a republic. Mexico, a republic also fucked up. You’re scared of a “King Andrew”, but we could easily end up with a President Putin in the U.K.

Too, in most cases establishing a republic required genocide. Is it really worth it?

It’s not like we have an absolute monarchy, we have a constitutional monarchy where 99% of royal power has been devolved to the Commons of Parliament..which is already Republican democratic system of government. In other words, the government we have is already 99% a republic and guess what we are fucked up too.

The House of Lords has been sidelined into an advisory body only- they cannot even delay a Act of the Commons for more than a year much less veto it. Out of 670 peers, only 92 are hereditary the rest are elected life peers by the Commons. The judiciary and Church of England are also completely already separate from and independent of the monarch. The royal family is required to be apolitical- they cannot even vote. Their function is ceremonial and also as a type of ambassador.

Establishing a more pure 100% republic will only get rid of a ceremonial figurehead who represents history and tradition. A figurehead by the way, that we do not bankroll. They pay for themselves. No tax money that any “taxpayer” in all of U.K. supports the monarch or their family. And yes I suppose you could seize all their wealth and property, but why target them and not the rest of the ultra rich and aristocrats? The Duke of Buckingham is twenty times richer than the royal family. The ‘money’ they supposedly stole to become aristocrats was all spent centuries ago. The money they have now they made the same way as the Jeff Bezos and Elon Musks of the world. I’m reading a book on the aristocrats now and do you know how many started as wool merchants? Or stone masons? Most of them. The aristocrats we have today, are the Bezos of two centuries from now because he’s made more than enough money to last for generations of his family.

[Discovereads]

@cakeorwine
And that's why we would have a Constitution, a separate judiciary, an elected Second Chamber and rules to follow.

We have a constituent, a seperation judiciary and 87% of our “second chamber” are elected by MPs in the Commons- but that hardly matters because our “second chamber” doesnt get to vote on actual laws, they can only propose laws and advise on laws in draft form. They cannot block laws.

[cakeorwine]

A pure republic has also not worked at all well for many other countries as well. It’s not the fail safe, awesome, cannot go wrong solution you think it is. Look at how fucked up the US is, republic, how fucked up China is, republic, how fucked up Russia is, also a republic. Mexico, a republic also fucked up. You’re scared of a “King Andrew”, but we could easily end up with a President Putin in the U.K

You are missing the point.

No one should be Head of State because of birth right.

That for me is the number 1 principle.

[cakeorwine]

@Discovereads

@cakeorwine
And that's why we would have a Constitution, a separate judiciary, an elected Second Chamber and rules to follow.

We have a constituent, a seperation judiciary and 87% of our “second chamber” are elected by MPs in the Commons- but that hardly matters because our “second chamber” doesnt get to vote on actual laws, they can only propose laws and advise on laws in draft form. They cannot block laws.

Do we?

A proper written Constitution clearly outlining how things work?

Can you point me to this written Constitution?

[Discovereads]

@Lunar270
The monarchy PR machine is relatively new, if you're familiar with history. Till then I'm not sure what you'd call it but was closer to facism than a democracy.

You’re obviously not familiar with history nor the definition of fascism. The idea that the monarch is there with a noblesse oblige purpose towards the populace has been around since 1381 when the monarchy curbed the greed of the landowners and enacted reforms after the Wat Tyler rebellion.

This is separate from type of governance as prior to 1215 it was an absolute monarchy (not “fascism”!). After 1215 and the Magna Carta we evolved quite quickly into a constitutional monarchy with a Parliament the monarch had to defer to during the reign of Edward I in around 1272. That’s why we have no set codified constitution because it’s evolved over a millennium with many Acts of Parliament.

In so far as “democracy” goes well..you can have a democracy without universal suffrage. The Athenians didn’t have universal suffrage and they invented democracy. Most people unfamiliar with democracy thinks it means every adult gets a vote- it doesn’t. And for much of our history as a democracy we didnt have universal suffrage- we’ve had it for less than 100yrs.

[Legrandsophie]

Thanks for the lovely digs about being ignorant.

I’m very well versed in British history and understand what happened in Ireland on a deeply personal level, what with being half Irish and listening to family stories.

Anyone using Ireland as a great example of how to move to republic doesn’t understand the difference between Britain and Ireland. It is not the same. Would Ireland be a republic if it was their own monarchy that they were over throw king. I doubt it.

Can anyone point out an example of a country getting rid of their own monarchy in favour of a presidential system without E our nous bloodshed and death?

[cakeorwine]

That’s why we have no set codified constitution because it’s evolved over a millennium with many Acts of Parliament

About time we got a codfied written constitution and we evolved into a country where you don't get to be Head of State because of who your parents were.

Then - when people decide to prorogue Parliament, a Head of State would look at the Constitution and could tell the PM - that he or she could not do that at the time. If the PM had a problem, then it could go to the Supreme Court - and there would be consequences if the PM was trying to subvert the Constitution.

Someone needs to ensure that politicians are held accountable.

[Discovereads]

@cakeorwine

Do we?

A proper written Constitution clearly outlining how things work?

Can you point me to this written Constitution?

Yes we have a constitution. It’s not a single codified document but the sum of many documents from the Magna Carta plus many Acts of Parliament and case law. You’re welcome to actually research it, if you like. The Wikipedia page is a half decent introduction to our constitution.

[cakeorwine]

Can anyone point out an example of a country getting rid of their own monarchy in favour of a presidential system without E our nous bloodshed and death

A lot of countries which are Republics now have had to get rid of the colonial powers who occupied their country, imposed their laws and imposed their Monarch as the Monarch of that country as well.

So getting rid of the colonisers - because colonisers don't like to leave countries - has involved bloodshed.

Once the colonisers have gone, then a new system of Government can be created.

[cakeorwine]

Yes we have a constitution. It’s not a single codified document but the sum of many documents from the Magna Carta plus many Acts of Parliament and case law. You’re welcome to actually research it, if you like. The Wikipedia page is a half decent introduction to our constitution

I know that - the question is - many countries have a single written Constitution.

We need one as well. Instead of the complex system we have.

[Discovereads]

@cakeorwine

Can anyone point out an example of a country getting rid of their own monarchy in favour of a presidential system without E our nous bloodshed and death

A lot of countries which are Republics now have had to get rid of the colonial powers who occupied their country, imposed their laws and imposed their Monarch as the Monarch of that country as well.

So getting rid of the colonisers - because colonisers don't like to leave countries - has involved bloodshed.

Once the colonisers have gone, then a new system of Government can be created.

oh, yes “once the colonisers are gone* then utopia!
it hasn’t ever worked that way.
I think you’ll find a lot of bloodshed also happened/is happening after independence as well.

[WoodlandMummy]

@OnlyEverAutumn

@Discovereads wow! Seriously 😂

Hello fellow republicans - it’s good to be with my people 😄

👋🏼