AIBU?
To be surprised if Camilla wears the Kohinoor Diamond…
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 13:33
The media is speculating if Camilla will wear the Kohinoor diamond as King Charles III’s Queen Consort during the coronation. What do you think?
It is said that the Kohinoor carries a powerful curse, ‘only God or a Woman can wear with impunity’. Ever since the Kohinoor came to Britain, the diamond has only been given to a woman in the royal family (either the Queen, the Queen Consort or the Queen Mother).
’Kohinoor’ was trending on social media soon after the sad news of the Queen of England’s passing. Koh-I-Noor: Why crown jewel is trending in India following Queen Elizabeth II’s death.
The Queen Mother was last to wear the Kohinoor on her crown. Back when she was given the Kohinoor, in 1936, the jewel symbolised her being the British Empress consort of India, because India was the jewel in the British Empire’s crown. She was the last to hold the title, since India gained its independence in 1947 and became a republic. So, a British royal wearing the diamond now in 2022 makes less sense given the title that used to go with the gem no longer exists (but the controversy around the Kohinoor definitely does exist).
Camilla wearing the Kohinoor might send the wrong message to nations claiming the gem and also show an insensitivity to the Kohinoor’s troubling history. The Kohinoor is a diplomatic gem, as well as a crown jewel.
Camilla could wear the Kohinoor, but I’d be surprised if she does given the baggage. Thoughts?
Am I being unreasonable?
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BecauseICan22 · 09/09/2022 13:38
It should be back in India where it belongs. The Raj is a shameful but true part of history and what was relevant than in terms of why and how this diamond was given is not relevant today.
We have just celebrated 75 years of Indian independence this August gone. I'm UK born but my parents are both from India and both recall partition well. I have dual heritage and see it from both sides.
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 13:39
Camilla doesn't the type who's that bothered by trappings but Charles did love his grandmother so maybe he'd like her to wear his grandmother's crown. Who knows?
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 14:11
BecauseICan22 · 09/09/2022 13:38
It should be back in India where it belongs. The Raj is a shameful but true part of history and what was relevant than in terms of why and how this diamond was given is not relevant today.
We have just celebrated 75 years of Indian independence this August gone. I'm UK born but my parents are both from India and both recall partition well. I have dual heritage and see it from both sides.
India isn’t the only nation claiming the gem; there are about 4 other nations. It’s a diplomatic problem.
Anita Anand writes about how the Kohinoor is in Britain illegally but should also remain because of the ownership disputes. Remaining in Britain safely is different to Camilla wearing the gem at the coronation (because that can open a can of worm).
The history of how the Kohinoor was acquired is relevant to more than just the diamond. It’s also about another royal family and how a vulnerable child king was treated (separated from his Queen Mother and forced to sign away the kingdom that was supposed to be his, along with the kohinoor). His royal family died during the early part of the late Queen of England’s 70-year-reign with his eldest daughter, Princess Bamba, but it doesn’t seem like anyone noticed…
As the last surviving member of the Sikh royal family, Princess Bamba’s gravestone reads:
“The difference between royalty and servility vanishes,
The moment the writing of destiny is encountered,
If one opens the grave,
None would be able to discern rich from poor.”
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 14:41
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 13:39
Camilla doesn't the type who's that bothered by trappings but Charles did love his grandmother so maybe he'd like her to wear his grandmother's crown. Who knows?
Charles also seems to be aware of the wider history and complexity. In 1999 Charles unveiled a statue of Duleep Singh in Thetford, near to the churchyard where Duleep (the last Sikh King who signed away his kingdom and the kohinoor when he was a child) is buried.
Duleep made it clear in later life that he was unhappy with how he had been treated as a child.
Charles’ coronation will be the first since both the kohinoor diamond came to Britain and Duleep Singh’s royal family line has ended (during the early part of the late Queen of England’s 70-year-reign).
I suspect Charles has given the issue of his Queen Consort wearing the kohinoor publicly at his coronation a lot of thought.
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 14:48
Maybe even as much thought as you! 😉🙂
He does seem a sensitive and an aware guy but he did love his grandma and might be swayed by that? I don't know. I can't really get too het up about it. We got it 200 years ago in some sort of treaty. I'm pretty sure the different kings in India before our arrival got all sorts of stuff from each other by unsavoury means too.
Beamur · 09/09/2022 14:57
They've got plenty of jewels to choose from. Given the sensitivity over lots of legacy issues, I'd imagine that they will choose something traditional but uncontroversial.
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 15:12
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 14:48
Maybe even as much thought as you! 😉🙂
He does seem a sensitive and an aware guy but he did love his grandma and might be swayed by that? I don't know. I can't really get too het up about it. We got it 200 years ago in some sort of treaty. I'm pretty sure the different kings in India before our arrival got all sorts of stuff from each other by unsavoury means too.
“I'm pretty sure the different kings in India before our arrival got all sorts of stuff from each other by unsavoury means too.” Having read the history it sounds like most of those kings paid their prices too. The Kohinoor has a bloody history; this is where much of the diamond’s fabled curse derives its weight from.
A King must be pragmatic, not sentimental. Especially since the Kohinoor is held by the Crown, rather than by the family or individual who assert their claim to the Crown. Like I said, Kohinoor is more than a Crown jewel; it’s a diplomatic gem now.
Sure, we got it about 173 years ago but that means it has been away from its motherland for 173 years too. How it was obtains matters - there is merit to challenging the lawfulness of that Treaty.
Working towards a peaceful future is more important than ever.
BlackForestCake · 09/09/2022 15:15
Perhaps the coronation should be taken as an opportunity to wear it one last time – as a ceremonial part of renouncing it and declaring intent to return it, once we have figured out who ought to get it.
SoupDragon · 09/09/2022 15:16
Why on earth have you name changed for this? Is it terribly outing? 😂😂
LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 15:19
Let her wear it. She'll be the Queen
Incidentally, I think Queen Anne was the last queen of England
SoupDragon · 09/09/2022 15:20
Reading the history, I wonder how on Earth it could be returned to its "rightful owner" though as there seem to have been many. How do you decide who owns something like that?
motherstongue · 09/09/2022 15:22
Sorry to be a pedant but it really boils my urine when The Queen is offhandedly called “The Queen of ENGLAND”. She was not “The Queen of ENGLAND” she was “Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and NORTHERN IRELAND and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.”
I FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW, Sorry to derail
Beamur · 09/09/2022 15:25
Isn't Camilla the Queen Consort though, rather than Queen? That will probably impact on protocols too.
Sceptre86 · 09/09/2022 15:29
How do you decide who owns something like that?
Well it's not the UK for a start.
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 15:30
@motherstongue Yes, it is annoying but I guess there are a lot of history programmes on telly that are about Kings and Queens before the union so we're used to hearing king of England and King of Scotland. But I don't like using that because it's insulting to people in the other three countries who like the Royal family. And The Queen and and both Charles And Anne love Scotland, maybe even more than England. Lol.
LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 15:31
Beamur · 09/09/2022 15:25
Isn't Camilla the Queen Consort though, rather than Queen? That will probably impact on protocols too.
As was the queen mother. And queen Mary and queen Alexandra before.
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 15:32
Sceptre86 · 09/09/2022 15:29
How do you decide who owns something like that?
Well it's not the UK for a start.
Why not? Genuinely asking and not being argumentative because I don't know a lot about it and I can't be bothered to read up about it. Wasn't it part of a treaty settlement?
LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 15:33
motherstongue · 09/09/2022 15:22
Sorry to be a pedant but it really boils my urine when The Queen is offhandedly called “The Queen of ENGLAND”. She was not “The Queen of ENGLAND” she was “Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of GREAT BRITAIN and NORTHERN IRELAND and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.”
I FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW, Sorry to derail
It's not being a pendant.
It's the little Englander syndrome
Hence my comment about Queen Anne who I think WAS the last queen of England.
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 15:36
SoupDragon · 09/09/2022 15:20
Reading the history, I wonder how on Earth it could be returned to its "rightful owner" though as there seem to have been many. How do you decide who owns something like that?
I don’t think the kohinoor can be ‘returned’ to a ‘rightful owner’ easily at all. So, maybe should just remain part of the Crown Jewels. That way it won’t cause as much controversy.
I just think it would be unwise for Camilla to wear the Kohinoor at the coronation for various reasons. The most important one being diplomacy with countries like India that we need on side.
P.S. This name change is so much better - and fitting too! I was chuffed that it was available!
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 15:39
It's the little Englander syndrome.
To be honest, I don't think it's little Englander because most english people call themselves British. I think its more a hangover of school history and tv programmes, which concentrate mainly on events that took place before the union. So we're sort of used to saying King of England rather than King of Britain.
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 15:41
Hey Kohinoor, I change names all the time. I think you got a neat name there. Well done!
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 15:43
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 15:32
Why not? Genuinely asking and not being argumentative because I don't know a lot about it and I can't be bothered to read up about it. Wasn't it part of a treaty settlement?
Sceptre86 · 09/09/2022 15:29
How do you decide who owns something like that?
Well it's not the UK for a start.
Treaty is subject to meritorious legal challenges. Crux being: it was signed by a child (aged ten or eleven) without his Queen Mother.
“Therefore the diamond came to Britain thanks to dubious legality and very clear immorality.” (Link to a BBC article that should explain highlights of the history)
JuneOsborne · 09/09/2022 15:48
I don't think they care as much about its murky acquisition as the ceremonial and sentimental value of pieces like that. Lots of what's in the vaults has a more than murky past. I think they think they're above it all. After all, they're not new to controversy or scandal. Hopefully, someone somewhere will advise them that it isn't a great look.
Where it rightfully belongs is a hot potato.
And this is an issue with thousands of other, non royal owned artefacts too.
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