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Original poster

To be surprised if Camilla wears the Kohinoor Diamond…

86 replies

KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 13:33

The media is speculating if Camilla will wear the Kohinoor diamond as King Charles III’s Queen Consort during the coronation. What do you think?

It is said that the Kohinoor carries a powerful curse, ‘only God or a Woman can wear with impunity’. Ever since the Kohinoor came to Britain, the diamond has only been given to a woman in the royal family (either the Queen, the Queen Consort or the Queen Mother).

’Kohinoor’ was trending on social media soon after the sad news of the Queen of England’s passing. Koh-I-Noor: Why crown jewel is trending in India following Queen Elizabeth II’s death.

The Queen Mother was last to wear the Kohinoor on her crown. Back when she was given the Kohinoor, in 1936, the jewel symbolised her being the British Empress consort of India, because India was the jewel in the British Empire’s crown. She was the last to hold the title, since India gained its independence in 1947 and became a republic. So, a British royal wearing the diamond now in 2022 makes less sense given the title that used to go with the gem no longer exists (but the controversy around the Kohinoor definitely does exist).

Camilla wearing the Kohinoor might send the wrong message to nations claiming the gem and also show an insensitivity to the Kohinoor’s troubling history. The Kohinoor is a diplomatic gem, as well as a crown jewel.

Camilla could wear the Kohinoor, but I’d be surprised if she does given the baggage. Thoughts?

OP posts:
KnickerlessParsons · 09/09/2022 17:46

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 15:39

It's the little Englander syndrome.

To be honest, I don't think it's little Englander because most english people call themselves British. I think its more a hangover of school history and tv programmes, which concentrate mainly on events that took place before the union. So we're sort of used to saying King of England rather than King of Britain.

Well King/Queen of Britain is no more correct than King/Queen of England.

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 17:48

Yeah, I'm not typing out the full title - I was just saying why I think people say Queen of England automatically and are not meaning to be disrespectful.

eddiemairswife · 09/09/2022 17:48

I bet that even now Camilla is trying to prise it out of it's setting with her Swiss Army knife.

RandomPenguinHouse · 09/09/2022 17:50

LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 15:33

It's not being a pendant.

It's the little Englander syndrome

Hence my comment about Queen Anne who I think WAS the last queen of England.

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No, it’s definitely not being a pendant Grin

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 17:50

eddiemairswife · 09/09/2022 17:48

I bet that even now Camilla is trying to prise it out of it's setting with her Swiss Army knife.

It's mine, I tell you. All mine. Bwah ha ha haaa.

CPL593H · 09/09/2022 17:50

LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 15:19

Let her wear it. She'll be the Queen

Incidentally, I think Queen Anne was the last queen of England

Wouldn't that have been Elizabeth I? Queen Anne was a Stuart, post James VI/I.

Original poster
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 17:56

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 17:42

I don't know all the ins and outs of what happened in 1849, although you might. Wouldn't the Solicitor General have taken all the facts into his judgement? He did after all read all the papers given him by the campaign groups so would seem to have more background knowledge than you and I.

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You’d think so, but when he made that historically inaccurate statement, the credible historians came out in force stating how they couldn’t believe what he said. Not sure if there was a political agenda behind it or he was trying to silence debate because India know they can’t get the kohinoor back if Britain won’t volunteer it back. Dunno.

You can access a copy of the 1849 treaty online. It’s one of the things that isn’t disputed.

Aged 10 or 11, the child Duleep Singh signed the 1849 Treaty without his Queen Mother (she had been forcibly separated from him and imprisoned). His Queen Mother clearly did her best; she tried to get legal representation but she faced too many obstacles. Definitely a Justice issue.

The most reasonable thing to start off with would be to test the lawfulness of the legal Treaty signed in 1849. For that you’d need an independent courtroom with the vision to the bigger picture and keen eye for truth. If you believe in the divine appointment of monarchy then it’s not a leap to say that would have to be God’s courthouse (this is a dispute between two different royal families).

OP posts:
Original poster
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 18:02

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 17:43

There’s a very accessible history book about this. “Kohinoor: The History of the World’s Most Infamous Diamond” by William Dalrymple and Anita Anand.

Yeah, I'm not reading that. It's just not that interesting.

The book about his daughter is a bit livelier and engaging; it goes through the backstory too. She was a Suffragette. How many people know that an Indian Princess was fighting for women’s right to vote?

Here’s a documentary about her, Sophia Duleep Singh. If you’re interested…

OP posts:
LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 18:03

CPL593H.

That's why I said I wasn't sure but I thought until 1707 the queen was monarch of both separately, then they were unified

But it's not worth labouring on this thread and if I'm wrong, I'm ok with that.

Anyway. Queen Camilla should absolutely wear all
The Crown Jewels she's entitled to

Notarealmum · 09/09/2022 18:06

We’ll I know I wouldn’t be wearing it if cursed…..😳

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 18:07

Again, Kohinoor, I don't know a lot about this just what I remember from telly, but didn't the child have a Indian protector to look after his interests? Another raja or someone?

Original poster
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 18:10

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 17:45

But the curse isn't on women, is it? It's just on men. Or is that something else I got wrong?

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The curse apparently says “only God or a woman can wear it with impunity”.

Depends if God got there first… lol 😂

We’re talking royalty and monarchy here. So God matters in this arena.

The kohinoor’s curse comes from conflating it with another gem from Hindu scriptures called the Syamantaka which was said to belong to Surya, the sun god, and had the power to destroy unworthy mortals without mercy.

OP posts:
MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 18:14

Wouldn't that have been Elizabeth I? Queen Anne was a Stuart, post James VI/I.

When Queen Anne ascended to the throne, she had the separate titles of Queen of England and Queen of Scotland. Two separate countries, not united so still separate monarchies. After the union in 1707 she became Queen of Great Britain and Ireland.

So Larry was right to say she was the last Queen of England.

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 18:16

You know a lot, Kohinoor. 👍 Impressive.

Saz12 · 09/09/2022 18:19

You know what? None of them should have it as they’ll all just argue. Hand it over to me, I’ll keep it until they all grow up enough to stop squabbling and quit making up silly stories about curses. (Or until I sell it, whichever happens first).

Original poster
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 18:21

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 18:07

Again, Kohinoor, I don't know a lot about this just what I remember from telly, but didn't the child have a Indian protector to look after his interests? Another raja or someone?

Duleep Singh had a perfectly capable mother. She was separated from him because she was the only one who seemed to have his best interests at heart and was protecting his interests as his Queen Mother (acting as regent).

His Kingdom was rich and powerful, but that made it enviable and vulnerable. Vulnerability was identified when his father died.

British Guardians we’re appointed after the child signed everything away. Lord and Lady Login: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spencer_Login

OP posts:
Original poster
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 18:21

*were

OP posts:
Original poster
KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 18:22

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 18:16

You know a lot, Kohinoor. 👍 Impressive.

I think I’ve earned this username lol 😂

OP posts:
HoneyIShrunkThePizza · 09/09/2022 18:25

It feels like you've been waiting years to start this thread. Mastermind?

motherstongue · 09/09/2022 18:31

@RandomPenguinHouse lol. Bloody phone!!
And yes, I should have qualified by saying that many Scots consider Queen Elizabeth 2nd to actually be the 1st of Scotland but the point I was making was that she’s never been “The Queen of England”.

TwoMonthsOff · 09/09/2022 18:34

@MarshaMelrose
its quite an interesting read though and an eye opener

WindsweptNotInteresting · 09/09/2022 18:41

LoveLarry · 09/09/2022 15:49

You might be, I'm not

But then I'm not English Smile

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To be fair, I have literally just read someone in a thread elsewhere refer to her as "la reina Isabel II de Inglaterra" (Queen Elizabeth II of England). I also lived in the US for a while and a lot of them talk about the "Queen of England".

Not saying it is correct obviously, just that it is reasonably widespread (and incorrect), so not necessarily a "little Englander" thing :)

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 19:14

KohinoorDiamond · 09/09/2022 18:22

I think I’ve earned this username lol 😂

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Definitely. Don't use it on any other thread because if you then say something stupid, I'll be soooo disappointed. 😂
You're my go-to Kohinoor expert. 😁

CPL593H · 09/09/2022 20:13

MarshaMelrose · 09/09/2022 18:14

Wouldn't that have been Elizabeth I? Queen Anne was a Stuart, post James VI/I.

When Queen Anne ascended to the throne, she had the separate titles of Queen of England and Queen of Scotland. Two separate countries, not united so still separate monarchies. After the union in 1707 she became Queen of Great Britain and Ireland.

So Larry was right to say she was the last Queen of England.

Thank you @MarshaMelrose and @LoveLarry , my mistake

darmaka · 09/09/2022 20:55

If certain royals wore it, it would be a travesty. Only matters depending on who is wearing it.